Author Topic: TDC on SB code 1.6td (Read 4170 times)

ELVIS · « **on:** February 01, 2007, 03:03:02 pm »

hi! have got a 1.6td sat on a pallet in my garage ready to go in my vanagon.am doing belt change/tensioner/pump timing / new waterpump etc before it goes in.
because it is not fitted to a bell housing i obviously cant line it up with TDC mark on flywheel???
i have borrowed one of these VW tools
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/injtim.htm ( the sliding rule that bolts to block) what should it be for an SB code engine ?
when i lock the cam and injection pump , the 'O' on the flywheel is exactly 100mm , is this right , hope so or everything is badly out!! it turns over ok and valves dont touch pistons :lol:

myke_w · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2007, 03:54:42 pm »

Put all the pistons at half bore when you bolt it down, then turn the cam and bottom to tdc by hand when you are ready to time it.

ELVIS · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2007, 04:02:27 pm »

hi Myke! the head hasnt come off, still got the old belt on . surely there must be a way of getting TDC with one of these guages? , its just knowing the length ! :lol: the engine was taken out as a god runner and hasnr been disturbed. the only other option is to site belt with present 'settings' then recheck when fitted! will the tdc markings on a passat bellhousing be in the same place as a vanagon bellhousing ? are flywheels marked up in the same place for tdc ? :?:

myke_w · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2007, 04:09:06 pm »

The flywheels are different and will be marked differently. I'd probably plan on timing it in the vehicle, that way you are sure, there are no methods that compete with the flywheel mark for accuracy. It won't make it any harder to time it on the vehicle either. Be sure to turn over the crank by hand at least 1 full turn after you tighten it all down or put the valve cover back on. Also, the tensioner gets turned clockwise to tension the belt.

andysimpson · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2007, 04:41:31 pm »

Quote from: myke_w

The flywheels are different and will be marked differently. I'd probably plan on timing it in the vehicle, that way you are sure, there are no methods that compete with the flywheel mark for accuracy. It won't make it any harder to time it on the vehicle either. Be sure to turn over the crank by hand at least 1 full turn after you tighten it all down or put the valve cover back on. Also, the tensioner gets turned clockwise to tension the belt.

This is the proper vw tool for engine work with engine out, with a different flywheel than standard the tdc on the gearbox will be wrong.

ELVIS · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2007, 04:43:06 pm »

Quote from: myke_w

. Also, the tensioner gets turned clockwise to tension the belt.

cheers andy! never thought of asking that one!

will do what ya say and re-check it in situ. i know it must be ok at mo as it was a runner and when ive turned it over now , nothing 'touches' . thanx again elvis

Mark(The Miser)UK · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2007, 05:56:29 pm »

The only way to be sure of your timing (even better than the occasional misaligned flywheel mark) is to remove #1 injector and measure peak rise of piston on compression stroke. No 'ifs' and no 'buts'... from this you can make your own timing marks anywhere convenient... crank pulley rim included:idea:

andysimpson · « **Reply #7 on:** February 01, 2007, 06:03:52 pm »

Quote from: Mark(The Miser)UK

The only way to be sure of your timing (even better than the occasional misaligned flywheel mark) is to remove #1 injector and measure peak rise of piston on compression stroke. No 'ifs' and no 'buts'... from this you can make your own timing marks anywhere convenient... crank pulley rim included:idea:

Maybe on a tdi but how is that going to work on a idi??

itzdshtz · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2007, 07:57:04 pm »

An easy way to find TDC :

Make a pointer from wire from your block to your crank pulley.

On cyl #1, have both camlobes pointing upwards.

Turn the crank counter clockwise away from #1 TDC about 45 degrees, put a spacer (a piece of 1/4" key stock) between the intake valve lifter and cam lobe of #1 cyl (push it down with a screwdriver) then rotate the crank clockwise until the piston hits the intake valve. Mark this position on the crank pulley.

Next, rotate the crank counter clockwise a bit so that you can take the spacer out between the valve lifter and the cam lobe.

Then turn the crank clockwise about 45 degrees after TDC, put the same spacer back in the same place between camlobe and lifter and turn the crank counter clockwise until it hits the intake valve again and mark this position on the crank pulley also.

Next rotate the crank clockwise a bit so that you can take the spacer out again.

Now all you have to do is to devide the space between the two marks, rotate the crank until the pointer hits this mark and that is your exact TDC.

Make a mark on your bellhousing and flywheel.

Put your valve cover back on, take your temporary pointer off and you're done.
Now this procedure is for a solid lifter head, if you have a hydraulic lifter head, you will have to let the keystock sit in between the valve and lifter for 15 min. or so to bleed the lifter.
Also be careful when turning the crank by hand until it contacts the valve, you don't want to bend any valves.

Mark(The Miser)UK · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2007, 08:39:31 pm »

Quote from: andysimpson

Quote from: Mark(The Miser)UK
The only way to be sure of your timing (even better than the occasional misaligned flywheel mark) is to remove #1 injector and measure peak rise of piston on compression stroke. No 'ifs' and no 'buts'... from this you can make your own timing marks anywhere convenient... crank pulley rim included:idea:

Maybe on a tdi but how is that going to work on a idi??

IDI is what I was referring to. You should be able to poke down through swirl chamber to piston top with something. A piece of wire etc.
Good luck...
... SB engines are all hydraulic aren't they so the other poster's method is a little trickier to do to be sure of 'bisecting' to the TDC on a 'deflated ' or partially deflated hydraulic follower

itzdshtz · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2007, 12:25:47 am »

It is 100 mm to the notch in the Vanagon's pressure plate.

ELVIS · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2007, 08:43:59 am »

cheers for all ya help fellas! didnt want to try all the 'stick wire in ya engine' etc ways . got the guage (cheers andy!) so have the ability to do it EXACTLY .my clutch cover isnt notched (SACHS?!) but on the flywheel there is a singular '0' (at approx 12 oclock position) with a small line underneath in the exact centre. thanks to Andysimpson (again-he trawled thr' all his VAG manuals/Cds) sussed out its 96mm to the centre of '0' . have timed it up and it is within 1/2 mm on flywheel (were talking leave 1 feeler guage out and ya get it spot on) thanks again to andy for enocouraging me to do it properly and loosen pulley and go for 100% right and not 99.9%!!

Mark(The Miser)UK · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2007, 06:59:42 pm »

Quote from: ELVIS

cheers for all ya help fellas! didnt want to try all the 'stick wire in ya engine' etc ways . got the guage (cheers andy!) so have the ability to do it EXACTLY .my clutch cover isnt notched (SACHS?!) but on the flywheel there is a singular '0' (at approx 12 oclock position) with a small line underneath in the exact centre. thanks to Andysimpson (again-he trawled thr' all his VAG manuals/Cds) sussed out its 96mm to the centre of '0' . have timed it up and it is within 1/2 mm on flywheel (were talking leave 1 feeler guage out and ya get it spot on) thanks again to andy for enocouraging me to do it properly and loosen pulley and go for 100% right and not 99.9%!!

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Flywheels have been known to be wrong due to lummux's putting on wrong and leaving a bolt out!
Be sure to rotate engine a few times by hand after timing to be sure there's no valve touching.