Author Topic: Timing belt change question!  (Read 4241 times)

October 12, 2004, 11:17:31 am

Topherdiesel

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 132
Timing belt change question!
« on: October 12, 2004, 11:17:31 am »
So I want to change my belt soon, just to be safe.
Heres the thing...if I mark all of the pulleys and the old belt, then transfer the marks to the new belt, and make sure none of the pulleys move(timing, crank, cam)...is it safe to put the belt on and drive it, or will it still be out of timing range??

This is a temporary thing until later this month when I will actually have time to do the headgasket!!!



Reply #1October 12, 2004, 01:53:37 pm

racer_x

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 123
Timing belt change question!
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2004, 01:53:37 pm »
First, I really don't recommend this under normal circumstances. Your case seems exceptional as you are planning to change the head gasket, and I assume you are also planning to install new oil seals on the camshaft, crankshaft and intermediate shaft at that tmie.

But in the exceptional case where you want to change the timing belt only, I've got a nice "shortcut" that makes it pretty easy.

What you need (in addition to the normal tools for a timing belt change):

- heavy duty utility knife
- aviators snips (tin snips)

Get the timing belt cover off, and remove the other accessory belts. Do not loosen the tensioner on the timing belt at all yet. Take the heavy duty utility knife and hold it in the center of the timing belt. Turn the engine with a wrench and use the utility knife to split the timing belt into two timing belts. Make the split a little closer to the engine side rather than exactly in the center. Once you have split the belt entirely, turn the engine forward with both half-belts installed and position the engine at TDC with the timing marks lined up (just in case).

Now, use the aviator snips to snip the outer part of the belt (the slightly wider part that is away from the engine). Slip the new timing belt onto all the sprockets half way. You might need to slightly release the tension on the tensioner. Be very careful. If you fully release the tensioner, the partial belt will probably slip and things will fall out of alignment. You want the inner part of the old belt to hold everything in alignment as you install the new belt. Once you have the new belt half way on, snip the inner part of the original belt and slide the new belt all the way on.

Reply #2October 13, 2004, 10:02:26 am

chrissev

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 694
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 10:02:26 am »
Quote from: "Topherdiesel"
So I want to change my belt soon, just to be safe.
Heres the thing...if I mark all of the pulleys and the old belt, then transfer the marks to the new belt, and make sure none of the pulleys move(timing, crank, cam)...is it safe to put the belt on and drive it, or will it still be out of timing range??

This is a temporary thing until later this month when I will actually have time to do the headgasket!!!


Don't do that.  What you do is lock the camshaft and injector pump at TDC, then take the old belt off.  Then you loosen the camshaft drive pulley bolt so you can move the pulley, put the new belt on so there is no slack between pump and camshaft pulley and pump and crankshaft (which must be at TDC, look through the hole in the tranny to check it), put tension on the belt to so you can almost twist it 90 degrees between the camshaft pulley and the pump, then tighten the camshaft bolt and the engine will be basically timed.  Then rotate the engine through a rotation with a wrench on the crank bolt to make sure nothing is hitting (valves and pistons), then time the pump with a dial gauge and start it up.  It's really easy to do.  Marking the belt is a bad idea.
88 Jetta TD....sold for $1000, bought an 06 Cobalt, clearing out the diesel jetta stuff now

Reply #3October 14, 2010, 12:23:55 am

gtidiesel1.6

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 72
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 12:23:55 am »
I have always had a issue with changing the belt/timing the pump... ???

When changing/adjusting the belt do i leave the pump pin in place when applying tension?
Do i leave the camshaft lock plate in when i apply tension or do i need to remove it when applying the tension?
Once the marks are lined up how many rotations do i do? 1 full rotation or 2? i heard 2 but want to double check
(I always seem to be exact on timing marks but the flywheel is always off once i apply tension and spin it a full rotation)



Reply #4October 14, 2010, 12:34:50 am

Vincent Waldon

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 3255
    • My collection of HOWTOs
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 12:34:50 am »
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #5October 14, 2010, 12:47:08 am

CRSMP5

  • Guest
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 12:47:08 am »
first off.. headgasket in couple weeks = wait to do head gasket..

2nd..
 a set of feeler gauges, a file, a piece of barstock... pull valve cover and lock the freeken cam that way...

find a nice chrome deep well socket.. think its 11mm and use it to pin the pump pully..

3rd loosen cam gear.. loosen the bolt a 1/2 inch and then smack said cam pully with hammer.. towards shock tower and pop it off..


this is after you got the other v belts/pullies/covers off..


the only item you can not hillbilly is the dialcaliper to fine tune th epump timming.. the other stuff.. yep..

cam gets tightened last.. get close to snug.. but not tight.. this way it can spin as you tension belt..

pump.. i remove said lock.. i turn the pully to rid slack from between crank and pump.. any slack = off a tooth at min.. intermediate shaft causes slack.. so get that side of the belt snug before cam..

then...

the reason cam gear spins is to remove slack from between pump/cam and crank when tension added..

too much tension = wiped out fuel pump!!!

once cam tight turn engine 2 turns on crank.. thats 1 turn on cam.. DO NOT EVER TURN CRANK BOLT COUNTER CLOCKWISE.. it may loosen it..
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 12:54:25 am by CRSMP5 »

Reply #6October 14, 2010, 09:41:46 pm

damac

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 530
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 09:41:46 pm »
I am about to do my first official timing belt changes on one of these cars myself.

When searching old posts about timing belt jobs without the official tension tool, I am left wondering what the actual degree of tension people are shooting for between the ip and cam?? 

I have seen debate on 45 or 90 degrees which freaks me out.

I am no wussy and when I got my jetta I noticed that the belt got really tight at about 45 degrees.  I also found shavings of the intermediate shaft and my injection pump bushings have left allot of play.  So perhaps it was overtightened in its life.
1985 turbo diesel jetta

Reply #7October 14, 2010, 09:45:37 pm

Vincent Waldon

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 3255
    • My collection of HOWTOs
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 09:45:37 pm »
The original Bentley advice had 90 for gassers and 45 for diesels... until they dropped the "twist" setting entirely in favor of the "official" tool.

After setting the belt to 12 with the official tool I can generally twist about 50-60 degrees before it starts to seriously resist.  I would say 90 is too loose.

YMMV !
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 12:48:48 am by Vincent Waldon »
Vince

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

Reply #8October 15, 2010, 06:41:37 am

Mark(The Miser)UK

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1557
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 06:41:37 am »
I have always had a issue with changing the belt/timing the pump... ???

When changing/adjusting the belt do i leave the pump pin in place when applying tension?
Do i leave the camshaft lock plate in when i apply tension or do i need to remove it when applying the tension?
Once the marks are lined up how many rotations do i do? 1 full rotation or 2? i heard 2 but want to double check
(I always seem to be exact on timing marks but the flywheel is always off once i apply tension and spin it a full rotation)


Rotate clockwise with the crank nut and a wrench.
Rotating once is not sufficient, simply because that puts you at #4 TDC timing bar wont fit if it's a close fit at #1 TDC because the slot in the end onf the cam is not central, so it's a 'cord' for the math types ;o).
So, rotate clockwise either twice or four times. Latter is better for setting tension correctly in the right areas of the belt...
Mark-The-Miser-UK

"There's nothing like driving past a bonfire and then realising; its my car on fire!"

I'm not here to help... I'm here to Pro-Volke"

Be like meeee: drive a Quantum TD
 ...The best work-horse after the cart...

Reply #9October 16, 2010, 12:21:25 am

CRSMP5

  • Guest
Re: Timing belt change question!
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2010, 12:21:25 am »
i would go for loose on the belt vs tight... too loose and you will hear the belt slap the timming cover ;)

if slappy need to give it more..

too tight bushing in pump = crap.. so for newbie listen for slap