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Author Topic: 1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up  (Read 24787 times)

March 07, 2006, 03:15:21 pm

chrissev

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« on: March 07, 2006, 03:15:21 pm »
It runs!  1.6 block/1.9 head combination is successful.  It made tons of white smoke when I started it.  Then smoked right up to normal operating temp.  So I said screw this, and I took it for a drive.  It smoked a lot for the first km or so, then gradually less.  Still smoked and missed at idle.  So I pulled out the cold start, and no more smoke or missing.  Put a few more kms on it and I am almost able to drive it with the cold start in without missing or smoke (still does it a bit but not as much as it was doing).  What a noise though that thing makes, the sound is unbelieveable.  It is like a cross between a Mazda and a Harley Davidson.  It has this whisper smooth, clock-like idle, like a swiss watch, and then this low grumble when it accelerates.  It is freaky.  I like it.  Also is very peppy and has a real power boost above 2500 rpm.  It's weird and I don't know yet if I'd suggest to anyone that they try this, but I am definately liking it so far.  I'm going to take a video of it running and driving and post it somewhere so people can hear this thing.  The sound is just amazing.  

Chris
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Reply #1March 07, 2006, 03:16:38 pm

BlackTieTD

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 03:16:38 pm »
cool! keep us posted chris. i've been thinking about this more and more lately.
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Reply #2March 07, 2006, 03:24:29 pm

malone

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 03:24:29 pm »
That's great news.. here's a sound clip of my 1.6/1.9 with lower compression and different turbo, accelerating slowly:
http://media.putfile.com/Malones-16TD---early-break-in-engine-audio

It was recorded with a small digital camera so I don't know if it fully captured the sound. There's also a lot of rattling from the exhaust pipe & an intercooler pipe, which should be disregarded. How does your 1.6/1.9 sound compare?

Lots of smoke and misfire.. I've gone through that, thanks to low compression from modifying the 1.9 head. My smoke didn't reduce significantly until after ~6,000 km. In your case it sounds like your misfire and smoke will decrease in little time. Just keep driving!

Upload your clip at http://www.putfile.com for free. The only catch is that you have to register (also free) after 10 uploads.
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Reply #3March 07, 2006, 06:37:20 pm

X@V

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 06:37:20 pm »
Malone, did you check your private messages since few months?  :lol:

And dou you have new videos after break-in period?
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Reply #4March 07, 2006, 08:48:18 pm

chrissev

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 08:48:18 pm »
Quote from: "BlackTieTD"
cool! keep us posted chris. i've been thinking about this more and more lately.


well like I said, not sure if I'd recommend this to anyone.  Once it warms up it is great.  But you have to sit there for ten minutes while it smokes like a bonfire until it does warm up and then you can drive it.  I'm not sure it's practical.  I'll let you know after a week of driving this strange engine combination whether it is worthwhile to do this or not

Chris
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Reply #5March 07, 2006, 09:28:13 pm

fspGTD

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2006, 09:28:13 pm »
Congrats getting it running, Chris!  The smooth idle means you probably didn't bend a valve or damage anything during the head installation - also good news.

Given people's natural tendency to report only the positive aspects of modifications they invest time and money to try out, your honest evaluation of both the good and the bad aspects of this modification experiment is refreshing and commendable.

I look forward to any future updates from you on this.
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Reply #6March 07, 2006, 10:17:57 pm

ricosuave

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2006, 10:17:57 pm »
Quote from: "chrissev"
Quote from: "BlackTieTD"
cool! keep us posted chris. i've been thinking about this more and more lately.


well like I said, not sure if I'd recommend this to anyone.  Once it warms up it is great.  But you have to sit there for ten minutes while it smokes like a bonfire until it does warm up and then you can drive it.  I'm not sure it's practical.  I'll let you know after a week of driving this strange engine combination whether it is worthwhile to do this or not

Chris


maybe if you were to have a longer glow plug cycle?  like i think the 1.9 is?
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Reply #7March 07, 2006, 10:35:22 pm

chrissev

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2006, 10:35:22 pm »
Quote from: "ricosuave"
Quote from: "chrissev"
Quote from: "BlackTieTD"
cool! keep us posted chris. i've been thinking about this more and more lately.


well like I said, not sure if I'd recommend this to anyone.  Once it warms up it is great.  But you have to sit there for ten minutes while it smokes like a bonfire until it does warm up and then you can drive it.  I'm not sure it's practical.  I'll let you know after a week of driving this strange engine combination whether it is worthwhile to do this or not

Chris


maybe if you were to have a longer glow plug cycle?  like i think the 1.9 is?


well as it is now, it smokes huge and misses until it is warm (ie normal operating temperature, temp gauge half way up).  Then it runs fine, doesn't smoke at all, and is very powerful compared to when it had the 1.6 head on it.  The problem is that it takes a while for it to warm up.  Right now with the temps hovering around 0 degrees it takes about ten minutes.  During warm up time like I said, tons and tons of smoke, heavy misfiring, and it's not driveable (I've tried, it bucks and jumps, won't smooth out)  I don't think the longer glow time would last all the way till it got to normal operating temp.  It might be a compression problem.  Or there might be something about the 1.9 head that was changed, and the rest of the set up was changed also, like a difference in the 1.9 pump or a difference in the 1.9 pistons, or the valves are longer and the timing is different for opening and closing.  Not sure really why it needs to be fully warmed up to be functional.  I expect it will be better in the summer.  

Re: spent lots of money on it...well I've spent $60 for a headgasket and $20 for some head bolts, and that is about it other than buying the 1.9 head, which I can sell again if this doesn't work out.  I am in the midst of rebuilding the 1.6 head so I have the option of putting it back on again for around $70 or so.  Not sure yet what I'll do.  It would be nice if I could find the bug that makes the 1.9/1.6 combination not practical.  I guess the thing to do would be to find out everything about the two heads that is different and then see what thing causes the smoking and missing when it is cold.  

Chris
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Reply #8March 07, 2006, 10:43:30 pm

malone

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2006, 10:43:30 pm »
Quote from: "chrissev"
Once it warms up it is great.  But you have to sit there for ten minutes while it smokes like a bonfire until it does warm up and then you can drive it.


Is it really a good idea to idle for 10 minutes after a cold start?

I still blow a massive amount of white smoke during a cold start, but after 10-15 seconds of immediate driving the smoke is cut down by 90%.. then 30 seconds later there's the occasional blue/white haze until I reach optimal operating temp ~15 minutes later. I call the cold-start smoke the "Big Bang," :lol: and I attributed that to my lower-than-normal compression. That aside the engine is factory-practical for daily use.. I've driven probably around 10,000km since 4-5 months ago.

It'll be interesting if you have the same cold-start smoke "problem" after break-in. Please do keep us updated...

Just out of curiosity, what is your piston protrusion height and your headgasket thickness?
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Reply #9March 07, 2006, 10:46:34 pm

wyldman

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2006, 10:46:34 pm »
Sounds like you do have a compression problem caused partially by the 1.9L head.

What head gasket did you use ?

How was the compression before you swapped heads ?
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Reply #10March 07, 2006, 10:49:52 pm

malone

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2006, 10:49:52 pm »
Quote from: "chrissev"
not driveable (I've tried, it bucks and jumps, won't smooth out) I don't think the longer glow time would last all the way till it got to normal operating temp. It might be a compression problem.


I've been through the exact same thing. Just keep driving and your compression WILL go up. The fact that the season is getting warmer will help a little.

If you're concerned about the misfire, buy a ZeroStart (or TDIHeader) and let it warm up your coolant system before you start. Electricity comes from your home/garage.
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Reply #11March 07, 2006, 10:58:26 pm

malone

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2006, 10:58:26 pm »
Quote from: "wyldman"
How was the compression before you swapped heads ?


Wait a minute... chrissev is using an old block? i.e. not a freshly rebuilt block?
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Reply #12March 07, 2006, 11:01:42 pm

chrissev

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 11:01:42 pm »
Quote from: "malone"
Quote from: "chrissev"
Once it warms up it is great.  But you have to sit there for ten minutes while it smokes like a bonfire until it does warm up and then you can drive it.


Quote
Is it really a good idea to idle for 10 minutes after a cold start?


I don't have a choice at the moment.  The engine misses too much to be driveable.  The miss firing seems to be directly related to the smoking, as soon as it idles smoothly when it has fully warmed up and there's no more misfiring, also no more smoke



Quote
It'll be interesting if you have the same cold-start smoke "problem" after break-in. Please do keep us updated...


the block's not recently rebuilt.  has about 70k on it.  And the head also has a few K (about 10 k I've been told).  I just mated the two together.  So there might not be that much of a difference for a break in period.

Quote
Just out of curiosity, what is your piston protrusion height and your headgasket thickness?


head gasket thickness is a three notch.  Piston protrusion was measured for that gasket when the engine was originally rebuilt.  I haven't checked it again.  Doubt it would have changed significantly.

Chris
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Reply #13March 07, 2006, 11:05:05 pm

chrissev

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 11:05:05 pm »
Quote from: "wyldman"
Sounds like you do have a compression problem caused partially by the 1.9L head.

What head gasket did you use ?

How was the compression before you swapped heads ?


compression before the swap was OK.  It smoked for about a minute when I started it below 0 degrees, but it would start down to -20 without a block heater so it must have had some compression.  I used a three notch.  That is what the guy who rebuilt it originally had on it and he measured it for that gasket.
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Reply #14March 07, 2006, 11:06:09 pm

chrissev

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1.6/1.9 Franken engine fires up
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2006, 11:06:09 pm »
Quote from: "malone"
Quote from: "wyldman"
How was the compression before you swapped heads ?


Wait a minute... chrissev is using an old block? i.e. not a freshly rebuilt block?


yeah, the block is an older rebuild.  Has about 70k on it
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