Author Topic: KKK K24 Turbo disassembly  (Read 61657 times)

August 08, 2005, 09:54:07 am

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« on: August 08, 2005, 09:54:07 am »
I am trying to take apart (to clean, learn about, rebuild, etc) a KKK K24 turbo off an '84 Jetta 1.6lTD.

I got past the step that seems to cause a lot of folks problems - removing the turbine housing bolts.  Actually I was alarmed how loose they seemed to be, no doubt penetrating oil helped.  And I managed to get the turbine housing off the center section successfully and squarely too, without damaging the turbine wheel.  They were stuck together pretty tightly so that was a challenge.

Now I am trying to remove the wastegate from the turbine housing, and I am a bit stuck.  I successfully removed the three 5mm allen-head bolts holding the wastegate to the turbine housing, and the wastegate is free except for the valve that protrudes out and through what looks to be a pressed-in valve guide.  The head of the wastegate valve is behind the valve guide, so it won't come out.  I tried slide-hammering the guide out using the wastegate, but that wasn't a good idea as I think I might have bent something inside.  How do I get the valve guide out?  Anyone done this successfully and if so, how?


Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits

Reply #1August 08, 2005, 03:24:24 pm

Patrick

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1034
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2005, 03:24:24 pm »
SOmeone may have to correct me, but the local turbo guy told me that that thing is actually threaded in. The three bolts aren't actually holding it together.

Reply #2August 08, 2005, 07:32:26 pm

andy2

  • Guest
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2005, 07:32:26 pm »
I,ve had a couple of k14,k24 wastegates out from the housing and they are a bit of trouble to get off.there is two thin heatshield/gasket cups that are just usually stuck in the housing with rust.Basically you can only get them out by pulling on the wastegate which causes one of the shields to bend a little and then they will eventually pull outfrom the housing.The small bend in the one shield is nothing to worry about and they will be reuseable with out any issues.The slide hammer is definitely the tool of choice here Just keep doing what you were doing and it will come out without hurting anything :wink:

Reply #3August 08, 2005, 08:03:09 pm

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2005, 08:03:09 pm »
Thanks Andy2!

Another question along these lines: Do you know if the wastegate can be disassembled or opened up somehow?  Or is the end cap permanently swaged on? (It looks like it might be...)  Would removing the nut and possibly the allen-headed stud sticking out of the end help it come apart somehow?  Is that just connected internally to an adjustable spring seat?  Thanks again.

Here is a pic of this turbo:
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits

Reply #4August 09, 2005, 05:17:47 pm

andy2

  • Guest
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2005, 05:17:47 pm »
I,ve also had the wastegate's cover off too.Using two screwdrivers I just worked my way around the cover's crimp as if it were a tin can (just be careful as you will be reusing it).I had no problems putting it back together and it was in alot worse condition than the one you have.The reason I took mine a part in the first place was that it was seized open and was otherwise useless so I had nothing to loose by taking it apart.If you test it using regulated air and it works without sticking then just leave it alone.Dr.diesel and I have played around with the screw on the cover to raise the opening pressure but it doesn't make much difference and if you screw it in far enough you can reduce the valve's opening travel as the screw also acts as a stop when the valve is fully open.This will raise boost by simply not allowing the wastegate to open all the way and will send EGT's way up.I would leave that ajustment alone Or put a bigger spring in the wastegate.So for anyone else looking to raise boost on the k14,k24 the best way is to just put a bleed in the line or use a boost controller, just leave the screw alone!

BTW just for reference the k14,k24 wastegates ar not interchangeable,as I found out also :cry:

Reply #5August 09, 2005, 06:07:04 pm

Baxter

  • Guest
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2005, 06:07:04 pm »
When I took a customers turbo for inspection the TurboDude could get mine apart, he went and got it redicularsley hot, it came apart then.
He tried levers and hammers with no avail after the screws were removed.
As it happened the actuator was completely jammed, hence problem with car.
Actuator was on back order (For and AAZ) for a good few months, he managed to find a recon unit and fitted that instead.

Reply #6August 09, 2005, 06:59:33 pm

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2005, 06:59:33 pm »
Andy2: Thanks again for the info.

Mr Brick-Yard: I was able to get my turbine housing off by hammering a wedge between the turbine housing and the oil supply/return bulges of the cast iron center housing.  I alternated between the oil supply and the oil return bulges to keep the turbine housing coming off squarely.  I noticed that if it got cocked, the turbine wheel would rub on the turbine housing, and I imagine getting it even more cocked could have bent some turbine wheel fins.  So be sure to keep it coming off squarely if you try this yourself folks!
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits

Reply #7August 11, 2005, 12:00:59 am

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2005, 12:00:59 am »
Pics!

Here is where I started today:


The wastegate was stuck...


So following Andy2's advice, I slide hammered those heat shields out of there!  Here is what it looked like when they came out... lots of carbon built up:


The wastegate passages are kind of interesting.  The gasses flow in toward the wastegate.  Could the wastegate really get a good seal on this valve seat???

Some wastegate measurements:
wastegate valve seat ID: 24mm
wastegate valve head diameter: 31mm
wastegate installed travel/pre-load: 2mm

pressure to reach 2mm travel: 10 psi (approximate.  Note: it is very "sticky" when completely closed.)
max travel: 10mm (8mm travel from touching the valve seat)
pressure to reach max travel: approx 14 psi
These wastegate pressure measurements pretty closely match what is published in the SAE paper:


Some detail of the turbine wheel.  The vanes look pretty aerodynamic.  I am impressed overall with the quality of this KKK turbo...

Turbine wheel specs:
OD: 59mm
exducer bore diameter: 49.5mm
thickness of fin section: 21mm

Compressor section "GW" before disassembly:


Here is what the inside of the compressor housing looks like:

Diffuser style is like most modern turbos, a parallel wall diffuser.  The outer wall looks like a separate piece of metal that is pressed into the main housing.

Compressor wheel is a backward curved impeller type.  This allows for more efficiency although less pressure ratio capability.  Detailed shot:

The measurements of the compressor wheel are:
inducer bore: 37.5mm
OD: 60.5mm

And here is what the cartridge looks like (AKA the "guts" of the turbo...)  A large colored o-ring seals the compressor housing to the cartridge.


I also tried to get some measurements necessary to calculate the turbine housing A/R ratio...

This thickness of 8mm was measured at a 59mm diameter.
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits

Reply #8August 11, 2005, 09:47:22 pm

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2005, 09:47:22 pm »
I made some more progress with the turbo disassembly today...

To get the compressor wheel off, I first removed the nut, then I played some heat onto the compressor wheel with an oxy-acetylene torch.  At about the point where the wheel got hot enough that the oil residue started smoking, I tapped it into a coffee can lined with some paper towel cushioning.  The compressor wheel fell right off.


Behind the compressor wheel, I found four T-30 bolts holding on the compressor backing plate:


After removing those bolts, the backing plate came off without trouble.  Here is what it looks like behind the backing plate:


Anyone have a good source on a rebuild kit for one of these?  I'd like to continue taking everything apart, and freshen it up with new bushings, seals, etc as I put it back together.  Anyone know a good turbo rebuild shop in the greater Seattle area?
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits

Reply #9August 12, 2005, 12:16:13 pm

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2005, 12:16:13 pm »
I found a local turbo parts distributor/rebuild shop that has a rebuild kit for this turbo.  Is $100 a decent price for a turbo rebuild kit?
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits

Reply #10August 12, 2005, 12:31:03 pm

VWRacer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 649
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2005, 12:31:03 pm »
That seems a bit high to me, Jake. Have you searched on the web? About $65 plus s&h sounds more like it. Of course, a bird in the hand is worth 1.5 in the bush...  :wink:
Stan
C-Sports Racer

Reply #11August 12, 2005, 12:59:56 pm

veeman

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 421
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2005, 12:59:56 pm »
Have you tried turbo_city?

http://www.turbocity.com/default.php?cPath=15_20

No affiliation...  Not sure which kit would work for you, but I see that the 300-300 kit lists some VW's...
81 Caddy TD
98 Audi A4 Quattro V6 TDI
83 VW GTI FSP
86 4ktq

Reply #12August 12, 2005, 01:22:53 pm

VWRacer

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 649
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2005, 01:22:53 pm »
Yeah, their 300-200 kit shows as fitting (amongst others) "Volkswagen Golf, Jetta, Rabbit, Quantum '82-'85 1.6L Diesel".

Price? $52.36
Stan
C-Sports Racer

Reply #13August 12, 2005, 10:48:59 pm

fatmobile

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2735
    • http://www.geocities.com/vwfatmobile/
turbo rebuild
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2005, 10:48:59 pm »
I'm working on taking one of these apart and this thread has been very helpful.
 I called one guy and he said to mic the parts to make sure I get the right size bearings and stuff.
 He said a generic kit doesn't always fit right. Not a one-size-fits-all kinda deal.
 Majestic turbo or something like that.
Tornado red, '91 Golf 4 door,
with a re-ringed, '84 quantum, turbo diesel, MD block

Reply #14August 15, 2005, 12:02:10 pm

fspGTD

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1529
    • http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd
KKK K24 Turbo disassembly
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2005, 12:02:10 pm »
Thanks for the lead on turbo city guys.  I have been looking on EBay recently for K24 rebuild kits but have not been able to find any.

Turbo city offers a rebuild kit for all K24/K26 turbos at $105:

Those other turbo city kits for mid-80's VW turbo-diesel application are for Garrett turbos.  I called Turbo City and found that their kit are not genuine parts, but are pieced together from various suppliers.  The genuine KKK rebuild kit is looking like a better deal.
Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits