Author Topic: Tuning 1.9TD by using a hybrid turbo - A few questions!! (Read 25603 times)

vwt4 · « **on:** October 08, 2008, 03:27:25 pm »

ok guys, this is slightly premature seeing as I have another thread going regarding fixing my T4!!!
but I am collecting parts for when shes back to full health and this is what I need some advice on please :wink:

I have read some 1.9TD tuning threads and will be doing the basic things such as:

EGR removal
Increase fuelling
Boost gauge
Well plumbed in intercooler
Turn the boost up a little!

But my aspirations go further than the little pewee turbo on my ABL engine code 1.9TD can take me :lol:

I would like some advice on what hybrid turbo would be suitable and also....if I do the 1.6 pump top modification (so that it adds fuel on boost iirc) will this be sufficient for running a bigger turbo and maybe 18psi for example?
I am not used to not having an ECU to deal with! and am keen to know if the fuel increase will be linear with the increased boost from a new turbo?

Will I need to fit a metal headgasket to safely run this level of boost? or even 15psi from a hybrid such as one I have been offered from a volvo T5? If so who sells metal headgaskets for the ABl engine please?

Thanks and sorry for the butt load of questions... if anyone can link me to threads on hybrid turbos for similar engine it would be appreciated

vwt4 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2008, 03:02:06 pm »

Can anyone give me some links or point me in the direction of where I can get some info please?

Anyone know a source for a metal or multi layer HG for an ABl engine?

Do you have to lower the compression on diesels when running higher boost as on petrols?
Or is detonation not an issue?

Thanks

zukgod1 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2008, 03:56:29 pm »

Someone will reply, it can take a few days some times.

No detonation problem on diesels just blown head gaskets and bent rods.

jtanguay · « **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2008, 04:04:38 pm »

the metal head gasket comes standard with the 1.9L

detonation is not an issue with a diesel by running high boost. it could however be an issue if you had the timing too advanced, but even then it's pretty hard, as i've heard of some motors running with 2mm of advancement. (but sound VERY loud :lol:)

what you should try is running with the wastegate disabled, and turning up the fuel with 1/4 turns (remember how many turns) and get to a point where it doesn't smoke, and live with it. intercooling will help reduce the smoke as well.

look in the FAQ for the DIY on how to make your car faster for info on how to turn up the pump.

vwt4 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2008, 04:36:24 pm »

Quote from: "jtanguay"

the metal head gasket comes standard with the 1.9L

detonation is not an issue with a diesel by running high boost. it could however be an issue if you had the timing too advanced, but even then it's pretty hard, as i've heard of some motors running with 2mm of advancement. (but sound VERY loud :lol:)

what you should try is running with the wastegate disabled, and turning up the fuel with 1/4 turns (remember how many turns) and get to a point where it doesn't smoke, and live with it. intercooling will help reduce the smoke as well.

look in the FAQ for the DIY on how to make your car faster for info on how to turn up the pump.

Thanks

but I am wanting to upgrade to a hybrid turbo as the peewee the T4 comes with as stock is nothing short of weedy :lol:

Im not wanting to go for huge power outputs of course...or I wouldnt be tuning a 1.9TD!! but I would like some more ooomph... Even if I can get it to 130 bhp I would be more than happy.

Can anyone clarify if I do the pump top mod so that fuel is added when more boost is present.
Will I be able to run a unit off say a Volvo T5 with an adapter for the manifold?

I have an intercooler in the pipeline (no pun intended) and am going to
fit a boost gauge Ive just ordered as soon as it arrives. But now the engine is running sweetly since my recent problems *8see other thread*) and has had a major service and everything near enough replaced. So I want to test it out a bit.
I have a TDi lump from a golf mk4 lined up for the future possibly and as a spare engine.

zukgod1 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2008, 04:50:58 pm »

Sure you can modify the ramp in the LDA do deliver more fuel then you can grind the foot a bit as well under the LDA for more travel.

Griding the pin is the best way to get more fuel under boost..

Just keep the exhaust housing no bigger than .48 and it will still be drivable. Beyond that it spools really slow.

vwt4 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2008, 05:24:07 pm »

Quote from: "zukgod1"

Sure you can modify the ramp in the LDA do deliver more fuel then you can grind the foot a bit as well under the LDA for more travel.

Griding the pin is the best way to get more fuel under boost..

Just keep the exhaust housing no bigger than .48 and it will still be drivable. Beyond that it spools really slow.

Thanks zukgod.
ok, so max .48 before I turn it into a lagmachine :?

Hmmm. never knew about grinding the pin....Im assuming I need to get a new pin first and then grind that? (off the top of of a 1.6 pump iirc)

Sorry to sound a bit newbish...(but I am to dervs) but whats the LDA...and have you any ideas where I can get info on my ABL pump or a specific breakdown diagram?
Im guessing I would need to acquire the Bosch CDs or maybe they are online?

subsonic · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2008, 11:57:00 pm »

If you are running the 1.9idi, you can just switch over to an old reliable t3 or k24 from the 1.6td. It was oversized for that application(1.6), but will give you substantialy more boost than the stock 1.9 turbo. It is robost and can handle 15-20psi no problem, for many miles.

Otis2 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2008, 05:38:27 am »

Quote from: "subsonic"

If you are running the 1.9idi, you can just switch over to an old reliable t3 or k24 from the 1.6td.

+1

Another vote for the T3 or K24 turbo from the 1.6 TD engine.

This is what I'm running in my AAZ-powered T3 van, a Garrett T3 turbo from a 1.6-TD-engined VW car. I believe the A/R is 0.36.

I ran a different T3 turbo with an A/R of 0.48 for a while, but the lag was terrible. I'm happy with the 0.36.

If you go this way, you will need the exhaust manifold from the 1.6 TD engine, too. The one you have now probably only accomodates the tiny K03 (or similar) that you have on there now.

You probably have a pretty tight engine bay in the T4 van. It could be tricky to play with different turbos.

Good luck, anyway.

vwt4 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2008, 05:24:50 pm »

Quote from: "subsonic"

If you are running the 1.9idi, you can just switch over to an old reliable t3 or k24 from the 1.6td. It was oversized for that application(1.6), but will give you substantialy more boost than the stock 1.9 turbo. It is robost and can handle 15-20psi no problem, for many miles.

Thanks subsonic
is the t3 or K24 from a 1.6 td really going to have much more ooomph (push more air basically) than one off a 1.9?? Is it really oversized or something? and what years(ish) cars am I looking for?

Does anyone know what the AR is on my current peewee garrett T15 (which is my current turbo)

Would a turbo off say an Audi S2 or S4
like this http://cgi.ebay.de/Audi-S2-s4-Turbolader-K24-Turbo_W0QQitemZ350107068339QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item350107068339&_trkparms=72%3A1280%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ebayphotohosting
be way too big and create a lagmonster?

otis2 - Thanks for the input

Youd be surprised with the T4s engine bay....there loads of room relatively speaking and compared to some other cars Ive owned! bigger turbo wont be a problem fitment wise....and nor will a decent sized intercooler which I will do at the same time.

To clarify - if I fit the 1.6 style boost pin so I get more fuel under boost, and add a T3 or K24 (or bigger) will I be able to run say 18psi relatively safely? Am I missing anything!!!!

(lets forget clutch and transmission for now as the clutch is good and the tranny is also in good order)
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zukgod1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2008, 06:10:54 pm »

Well cant tell from the pic but it looks like a gasser turbo, historically gasser turbos are lag pigs, our little engines require a much smaller exhaust housing to get the turbo moving.

Look at it like this, gassers run up to 8000 rpm, the turbo is designed to start spooling around say 3500-4000 rpm.

Toss that same turbo on our much smaller engines then turn those smaller engines a max of 4000 rpm. Make a huge difference.

I'm not saying you cant use it just plan on it being laggy OR toss ass loads of fuel at it to get it spool.. :twisted:

vwt4 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2008, 07:38:26 pm »

Quote from: "zukgod1"

Well cant tell from the pic but it looks like a gasser turbo, historically gasser turbos are lag pigs, our little engines require a much smaller exhaust housing to get the turbo moving.

Look at it like this, gassers run up to 8000 rpm, the turbo is designed to start spooling around say 3500-4000 rpm.

Toss that same turbo on our much smaller engines then turn those smaller engines a max of 4000 rpm. Make a huge difference.

I'm not saying you cant use it just plan on it being laggy OR toss ass loads of fuel at it to get it spool.. :twisted:

Hmm, very good point zukgod!

I had never thought of it like that. It is a gasser turbo and your right, it spools at about 2k from a 2.2 low comp engine,
Surely the high compression (22:1 iirc) of my derv engine make some difference? How do those pulling tractors make so much power? lol

Although I realise they are bigger engines!!and run 50psi plus boost!

Is it better to go for small AR and high boost then? and a good IC to chill the intake air as much as poosible?

No one has answered me about the boost pin and fuelling yet though :cry:

Will chucking ass loads of fuel at a bigger AR turbo help the spool? why?!

cyrus #1 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2008, 10:17:11 pm »

Quote from: "vwt4"

Will chucking ass loads of fuel at a bigger AR turbo help the spool? why?!

When the exhaust gasses leave the cylinder head to go out the exhaust, they are still expanding somewhat. Turbos work by converting some of this lost heat energy into mechanical energy. Dumping ass loads of fuel into the engine means there is more heat coming out of the motor. On diesels, generally more fuel = more boost. :twisted:

cyrus #1 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2008, 10:17:43 pm »

Crap! Double post. :roll:

vwt4 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2008, 07:17:09 am »

Quote from: "cyrus #1"

Quote from: "vwt4"
Will chucking ass loads of fuel at a bigger AR turbo help the spool? why?!

When the exhaust gasses leave the cylinder head to go out the exhaust, they are still expanding somewhat. Turbos work by converting some of this lost heat energy into mechanical energy. Dumping ass loads of fuel into the engine means there is more heat coming out of the motor. On diesels, generally more fuel = more boost. :twisted:

Ahh! gotchya!
Cheers Cyrus