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Author Topic: GTD nozzles - Driving impressions  (Read 10374 times)

February 19, 2005, 10:31:40 am

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« on: February 19, 2005, 10:31:40 am »
I installed my new "Smog" GTD nozzles in my spare set of injector bodies yesterday. I kept all the injector shims with their original bodies and didn't need to reshim any of them. They all popped off right at 2250psi, this would indicate that the nozzles are of pretty consistant quality.

 I had a few minutes this morning so I installed the injectors in the car. My idle was up to 2200rpm as soon as it was started, definately admitting a bit more fuel at idle. Quite a bit more diesel "clatter" as well, but thats typical of new nozzles. I expect it will quiet down over the next few thousand km. I adjusted the idle down and went for a ride. Traction was a difficult thing to find today, its kind of snowing and wet here, but the car seemed to pull very well. I would say its better than the old nozzles, especially on the high end. One thing that is curious, smoke at full power is almost completely gone, but the power is better. I would like to add a bit more fuel but I'm all out of idle screw. I'm going to monkey with the governor a bit more and see if I can get a bit more fueling on the high end. My full throttle EGT's are down a bit as well. I used to be able to bury the needle past 1600ºF now I can just hit 1550º. I'm thinking the GTD nozzles are getting the bulk of the fuel in a bit sooner and less heat is lost out the exhaust.

 Overall I would recommend these nozzles. I would expect that those those running 1.6TD's will get even better results.

 G-tech results will have to wait until the next GTG that Giles attends... :D
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Reply #1February 19, 2005, 11:09:20 am

Dr. Diesel

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 11:09:20 am »
That might be sooner than you think... I just bought a house with a big driveway and a HUGE garage. 1232 sq ft!!!!  diesel meet TBA
you can all thank me by chipping in and buying a set of those injectors for me.   :wink:
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Reply #2February 19, 2005, 12:13:02 pm

jossTD

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gtd nozzle
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 12:13:02 pm »
hi doc, the number of the gtd nozzle is DNOSD273 or DNOSD274? i just buy a set of used gtd nozzle to put on my 1.9 td AAZ, and the number for mine is DNOSD273.
i know the gtd were mount witgh diferent nozzle type, what are the best?
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Reply #3February 19, 2005, 07:21:21 pm

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2005, 07:21:21 pm »
The nozzles I got from Smog were DN0SD274. I don't know if the 273's are different or better...

In further testing (I finally found some traction) I can no longer recommend these nozzles, they ruined my clutch! :D  I thought it was just wheelspin in 4th and 5th this morning, the road was kind of snowcovered. Turns out I may need something different to handle the torque... This clutch has never been great. It slipped for a couple days when it was first installed but hooked up good as it broke in, now it's reverted back to pretty much useless. I'm using a 16v pressure plate and an 8v gasser disc. I'm thinking of getting Dr. diesels clutch guy to reface a proper diesel disc with kevlar. The gas discs always rattle at idle, not harmful but very annoying. The real diesel discs have a different damper in the hub and are quiet.
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Reply #4February 19, 2005, 11:03:56 pm

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2005, 11:03:56 pm »
Interesting that a gas disc would rattle on something as smooth as an electric motor. All the (210mm) diesel ones that I have are equipped with dual springs and what appears to be a multi-plate friction damper of sorts. The gasser ones just have a hub and 4 single springs. TDI people that install the VR6 clutch complain about the same sort of rattle. I would definately consider the diesel disc. I would agree that on an electric with 100% torque available at stall, you don't need a flywheel at all.
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Reply #5February 24, 2005, 12:07:15 pm

fspGTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 12:07:15 pm »
Hey QuickTD - just to lay out more explicitely what you have tested here... you have a 1.9lTD?  You put the GTD nozzles into single-spring injector bodies, and have compared them to your baseline which is what? (factory single-spring 1.9lTD injectors?  ...with how many miles, or what condition?)  Thanks for doing this test and reporting to us!
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Reply #6February 24, 2005, 12:26:07 pm

fspGTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2005, 12:26:07 pm »
I just re-read the other post in the "GTD nozzles for sale", and noticed you mentioned that you put the GTD nozzles into the 2-spring bodies.  That is a rather unique combination - did VW put that on any of it's motors or were all the GTD nozzles originally put into 1-spring bodies?  Did the GTD nozzles just drop right into the 2-spring bodies?  Thanks for the info... very interested in your test results.
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Jake Russell
'81 VW Rabbit GTD Autocrosser 1.6lTD, SCCA FSP Class
Dieselicious Turbocharger Upgrade/Rebuild Kits
Reply #7February 24, 2005, 07:33:22 pm

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 07:33:22 pm »
Quote
That is a rather unique combination - did VW put that on any of it's motors or were all the GTD nozzles originally put into 1-spring bodies? Did the GTD nozzles just drop right into the 2-spring bodies? Thanks for the info... very interested in your test results.


My car is a 1.9TD. The "baseline" injectors were stock 2 spring units out of a low mile 1.9TD engine that I purchased after it lost its crank pulley. I installed the GTD nozzles in another set of spare 1.9TD 2 spring injector bodies that I had kicking around. VW has never used this combination. I wanted to use the 1.9TD injector bodies so that I wouldn't have to bend or replace the lines. All DN_SD type nozzles that I have encountered will fit in any injector body, both single or two spring. The 2 spring setup is just another spring mounted coaxial with the primary spring. At a certain amount of pintle lift (should have measured...) the second spring comes into play and raises the pressure required to further lift the pintle. I don't see any reason that the 2 spring holder couldn't be used with any nozzle.

 The only prior hp measurement I have for the car was from a quickie G-tech run at the last SW ontario GTG. We quesstimated 3000lbs as the weight (2 bodies and a full tank of fuel). We came up with 88hp. Hopefully Giles will attend the next GTG so that we can duplicate the conditions exactly. If we enter the same weight using the same g-tech and same pair of bodies in the car we should get good data for comparison, even if the weight isn't accurate. I'll be sure to post the results here.
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Reply #8February 25, 2005, 12:26:58 am

RAMMSTEIN

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2005, 12:26:58 am »
Did you look at the nozzles hole?

Do the GTD nozzles have significantly bigger hole? :arrow:  :?:

Smog, what size hole the GTD nozzle do have, you know? :?:  :?:
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Reply #9February 25, 2005, 07:52:00 am

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2005, 07:52:00 am »
I measured the pintle tip diameter and the hole diameter. The pintle is the same size as the stock DN0SD308 nozzle. The hole diameter appears to be 0.002"- .004" larger on the DN0SD274 GTD nozzle, I was using number drill shanks to guage the hole size, so I can't be more accurate than that. The pintle lift appears to be the same for both @.039" or 1mm.
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Reply #10February 25, 2005, 07:57:11 am

Smog

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 07:57:11 am »
Quote from: "RAMMSTEIN"
Did you look at the nozzles hole?

Do the GTD nozzles have significantly bigger hole? :arrow:  :?:

Smog, what size hole the GTD nozzle do have, you know? :?:  :?:


I never took them to a microscope to see how big they are; I just got them as people ask for GTD nozzles.

but using a pin gauge, I found they are at 1mm
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Reply #11March 11, 2005, 01:49:02 pm

Smog

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Re: GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 01:49:02 pm »
Quote from: "QuickTD"
Overall I would recommend these nozzles. I would expect that those those running 1.6TD's will get even better results.

 G-tech results will have to wait until the next GTG that Giles attends... :D


any news about the injectors since the first drive ? :D
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Reply #12March 11, 2005, 02:30:32 pm

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 02:30:32 pm »
Quote
any news about the injectors since the first drive ?


Cold starting is excellent, the noise has quieted down somewhat. I may back off the timing a bit on the weekend, it's still a bit clattery. My fuel economy has improved by about 50km per tank over the old nozzles. Performance is still good.

 I had a problem before I installed the new nozzles that is still puzzling me. My engine idles uneven. It can be very clearly heard in the exhaust note and there is a subtle knock in the #4 cylinder. A vibration can be felt in the clutch pedal in time with the noise, which is 1/2 crank speed. The car has been doing this for nearly 100000km, so I don't think its a mechanical issue. I really thought it was due to a defective nozzle but the replacements act the exact same way, in fact they may have made the knock a bit louder. I've checked the cam and lifters, none are collapsed and the cylinder appears to have good compression (no missing on a cold start). I may check the compression with a guage anyway this weekend. There is really nothing in the pump that is unique to one cylinder so I don't think it could be the problem. I'm pretty much stumped. I've got a spare motor to go in if it gets serious... :D
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Reply #13March 11, 2005, 11:20:58 pm

fatmobile

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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2005, 11:20:58 pm »
Quote
There is really nothing in the pump that is unique to one cylinder so I don't think it could be the problem

 The pump has seperate delivery valves for each cylinder.
 I have swapped them out and gotten rid of a miss in one cylinder.
 They are on the end of the pump. The injector lines screw onto them
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Reply #14March 11, 2005, 11:57:01 pm

QuickTD

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GTD nozzles - Driving impressions
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2005, 11:57:01 pm »
Quote
The pump has seperate delivery valves for each cylinder.
I have swapped them out and gotten rid of a miss in one cylinder.
They are on the end of the pump. The injector lines screw onto them


Way ahead of you man, been there done that, no joy... :D
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