Fixmyvw.com

Author Topic: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ  (Read 326087 times)

Reply #75March 26, 2009, 09:03:21 am

Hey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 339
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #75 on: March 26, 2009, 09:03:21 am »
For the advance timig read this ... about the dual spring advance system:

http://www.4shared.com/file/95083796/3a65a2f/dual_springs_advance_system_english.html
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #76April 05, 2009, 12:15:19 am

foxracer1

  • Authorized Vendor
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 991
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2009, 12:15:19 am »
What adds advance with the throttle input going in or out with the gov shaft adjustment. My is noisy at cruise throttle. I backed it out a turn and a half cause i think i miss counted when reassembling the pump. But i'm not 100% sure which way i was off.
84 4dr Rabbit 1.6 N/A sold to friend
86 Jetta TD getting raced out AHU 02A
98 Jetta TDI Malone tune stg 3
91 S10 305 TPI T56
86 S10 2WD Prerunner project.


Now offering turbo rebuilds. HP or stock. Any turbo you have i can rebuild it for ya.
Reseal injection pumps PM for det

Reply #77April 17, 2009, 05:49:35 am

Holger_M

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 1
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2009, 05:49:35 am »
Hello,

As i understand, the base pump for this undertaking is a AAZ unit + 1z head, right? Would it be possible to use a 1.6 td from a jx engine, as this leaves more space to the engine cover in a vanagon. I got a syncro, so i could put in a aaz pump, but they are hard to source in germany, and there's a lot of jx pumps in my workshop. What is the problem with 1.6 pumps + 1z head so everybody uses the aaz pump?

Holger

Reply #78April 17, 2009, 09:51:14 am

Hey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 339
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2009, 09:51:14 am »
The only problem with the 1.6td pump is that the advance system is single spring. Also it was easier for me to use the advance system from a AAZ pump since I already knew that 1.6td regulator+1.9td advance system would work nice with a 10mm head

If you want to use a1.6td pump and a 10mm head, the timing advance won't be perfect. You could use a tdi advance system  (with the tdi caps) and the 1.9td regulator... that would work.

SInce you don't have AAZ pump, you could put the tdi advance system+1.6td regulator AND a 11mm head.

You could also had a little shim to the tdi advance system so that the engine won't clatter to much at idle... but some people are running without any shims with good results.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #79April 18, 2009, 06:47:46 pm

mr.mtdi

  • Newbie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 7
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #79 on: April 18, 2009, 06:47:46 pm »
Quote from: "Holger_M"
Hello,

As i understand, the base pump for this undertaking is a AAZ unit + 1z head, right? Would it be possible to use a 1.6 td from a jx engine, as this leaves more space to the engine cover in a vanagon. I got a syncro, so i could put in a aaz pump, but they are hard to source in germany, and there's a lot of jx pumps in my workshop. What is the problem with 1.6 pumps + 1z head so everybody uses the aaz pump?

Holger


Hi Holger! I Think you already know me from th ig 16"syncro forum. My nick there is michi84..
The JX Pump does not fit on the TDI. You get proplems withe space for the injection pipes and the LDA. I also think its better to use a 20mm shaft if you use 10mm or 11mm heads because of the high torsion. There are so many 20mm Pumps on Ebay for little money. I think its also better to usa a 11mm head for a Vanagon. If you still are searching for an AAZ Pump write me an PM.
Greats
Michael

Reply #80May 04, 2009, 11:33:04 pm

Hey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 339
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #80 on: May 04, 2009, 11:33:04 pm »
I have installed a tdi ECU on the cranksensor and #3 injector and made some experiments with vagcom.

The tdi is installed in a dodge dakota m-tdi with 12mm head and .230 injectors.

The injection quantity returned by the vagcom was way out, but the timing was coming out really good.

At 0.96mm the timing reads 3.5deg a idle.
We put the timing at 6deg at idle (like a tdi-e with 5deg more timing in adaptation channel) and made some runs. Timing decreases between idle and 2000RPM at 90km/h,  (from 6 to 3) which could be a little less timing than a tdi-e. We tried advancing timing at idle to 11deg, we had 8-9 deg at 2000RPM, but this was way to much as the engine would go to higher RPM with much difficulty.

We didn't made a log of the timing from 1500RPM to 4000RPM at different load, but we might next time.

We were able to see that timing was decreasing between 1/4load and 3/4load and increasing very fast at the end. (we could even feel the pickup accelerating with timing). So we screwed in the governor axis half a turn and then the timing was increasing gradually up to full load.

At 90km/h  and 2000RPM the timing was around 5deg. On a tdi-e, timing is around 0deg at the RPM and load.

At full load, timing was between 11 and 12deg at 2200tr. On a tdi-e timing is around 8 deg at this RPM and load.

Overall, the pump act just like a tdi-e one with 5deg more timing in the  adaption channel.

I think we would need some kind of stopper on the pump to make logs at differents load on the pump and at higher RPM (with 12mm head, we dont like to go over 3000RPM)

THe dakota is 4x4. EGT stays under 800F when cruising over 100km/h. Oil temp rarely rise up to 200F (usually 180F) and radiator fan pretty much never runs.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #81May 07, 2009, 10:09:26 am

jimbote

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 168
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #81 on: May 07, 2009, 10:09:26 am »
Quote from: "Hey"
I have installed a tdi ECU on the cranksensor and #3 injector and made some experiments with vagcom.

The tdi is installed in a dodge dakota m-tdi with 12mm head and .230 injectors.

The injection quantity returned by the vagcom was way out, but the timing was coming out really good.

At 0.96mm the timing reads 3.5deg a idle.
We put the timing at 6deg at idle (like a tdi-e with 5deg more timing in adaptation channel) and made some runs. Timing decreases between idle and 2000RPM at 90km/h,  (from 6 to 3) which could be a little less timing than a tdi-e. We tried advancing timing at idle to 11deg, we had 8-9 deg at 2000RPM, but this was way to much as the engine would go to higher RPM with much difficulty.

We didn't made a log of the timing from 1500RPM to 4000RPM at different load, but we might next time.

We were able to see that timing was decreasing between 1/4load and 3/4load and increasing very fast at the end. (we could even feel the pickup accelerating with timing). So we screwed in the governor axis half a turn and then the timing was increasing gradually up to full load.

At 90km/h  and 2000RPM the timing was around 5deg. On a tdi-e, timing is around 0deg at the RPM and load.

At full load, timing was between 11 and 12deg at 2200tr. On a tdi-e timing is around 8 deg at this RPM and load.

Overall, the pump act just like a tdi-e one with 5deg more timing in the  adaption channel.

I think we would need some kind of stopper on the pump to make logs at differents load on the pump and at higher RPM (with 12mm head, we dont like to go over 3000RPM)

THe dakota is 4x4. EGT stays under 800F when cruising over 100km/h. Oil temp rarely rise up to 200F (usually 180F) and radiator fan pretty much never runs.


Very interested in your ecm setup to check timing parameters with vag-com....please share :D

Reply #82May 07, 2009, 05:12:44 pm

Hey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 339
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #82 on: May 07, 2009, 05:12:44 pm »
Quote
your ecm setup

 ???

not sure to known what you are referring to!
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #83May 31, 2009, 08:27:42 pm

410

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 581
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2009, 08:27:42 pm »
Well, I have about 1200 km on my mtdi now and things are good.  I've been fine tuning a little lately trying to improve the timing.  I installed a pressure gauge to read internal pump pressure to get an idea of whats going on.  Turns out that I was not getting a pressure increase under heavy load or any load for that matter.  So I removed the timing cover, drilled a hole thru the injection pump bracket so I could adjust the governer axis without removing the pump.  I found this trick on the french side of the forums.  I then turned the axis in one full turn and bingo!  Instant pressure increase under load.  Too much actually.  I had to back it off quarter turn.

I also advanced the base timng by ear to the point where I was getting just a tiny little bit of clatter.   

I tapped into the injection pump by drilling and tapping the end of the return line bolt and installed a 6mm bolt with a locking nut and made a nipple on the end of it. 
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #84June 02, 2009, 06:11:26 am

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #84 on: June 02, 2009, 06:11:26 am »
So I removed the timing cover, drilled a hole thru the injection pump bracket so I could adjust the governer axis without removing the pump.  I found this trick on the french side of the forums.  I then turned the axis in one full turn and bingo!  Instant pressure increase under load.  Too much actually.  I had to back it off quarter turn.

Can you please illustrate this, because I can't follow you.

Do you mean that now you can adjust the trottle leaver inside the cover of the pump? If yes, why wasn't it accessable before?

Reply #85June 02, 2009, 09:42:21 pm

410

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 581
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2009, 09:42:21 pm »
Thanks Andrew, that's exactly what I meant! :)
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #86June 03, 2009, 03:01:15 am

DA-BRT

  • Junior

  • Offline
  • **

  • 140
    • http://Zwalve.eu/
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2009, 03:01:15 am »
Yeah... Now I got it. The inside hexagon bolt with M8 locknut.

Reply #87June 04, 2009, 10:40:32 am

Hey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 339
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2009, 10:40:32 am »
For those who don't have a pressure gage.. here how you can adjust this part. You turn the screw until you can hear the clatter increase when you accelerate (more load). Then you unscrew barely until you don't hear it anymore.... at the end you will just hear the engine roaring more but not with more clatter.

I have done about 10 000km with the tdi-m engine ( I rebuilded my 1.9idi to 1.9tdi). So far during winter I had 5.5 to 5.7l/100km fuel economy.

Last tank was 4.8l/100km... going between 115 and 120km/h. I also passed an afternoon with the pedal to the metal or pretty much trying adjustment for the VNT controler.... and to finish... this was mixt road/town driving. UNBELIEVABLE!

These m-tdi are sooo efficient.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN

Reply #88June 05, 2009, 08:05:11 am

dieselherb1

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 354
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #88 on: June 05, 2009, 08:05:11 am »
Hey,
Are you using TDI injectors?

Reply #89June 05, 2009, 02:41:19 pm

Hey

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 339
Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #89 on: June 05, 2009, 02:41:19 pm »
Yes.. but to use tdi injectors you need the tdi pistons and tdi head.
Jetta 96, VG-mTDi/hybride td, 20psi, IC, 10mm camplate de tdi, .205 et CTN