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Author Topic: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ  (Read 326055 times)

Reply #120November 01, 2012, 02:55:36 am

DA-BRT

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #120 on: November 01, 2012, 02:55:36 am »
All VAG indirect engines have a 17mm main shaft. There are other alternatives with almost our pump housing and 20mm axle.

I tried once to enlarge a 17mm pump to 20mm main shaft, but there is a small opening to pressurize the seal on the axle and you get into this hole when creating the bigger hole.

Reply #121November 01, 2012, 06:45:17 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2012, 06:45:17 pm »
All VAG indirect engines have a 17mm main shaft. There are other alternatives with almost our pump housing and 20mm axle.

I tried once to enlarge a 17mm pump to 20mm main shaft, but there is a small opening to pressurize the seal on the axle and you get into this hole when creating the bigger hole.

There has been mention of IDI pumps with 20mm shafts.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 10:58:28 pm by 8v-of-fury »

Reply #122November 02, 2012, 01:57:06 am

DA-BRT

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #122 on: November 02, 2012, 01:57:06 am »
Indeed, but not from VAG.

I've been working over 12 years on these VE / VP pumps and none of the VAG (VW / Audi / Seat / Skoda) IDI pumps had a 20mm axle. Yes, they have at Ford, PSA (Peugeot, Citroen) and most likely some others.

So please show me a pump that has got one, I would be very interested. ;)

Reply #123November 04, 2012, 01:41:08 am

8v-of-fury

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #123 on: November 04, 2012, 01:41:08 am »
Indeed, but not from VAG.

I've been working over 12 years on these VE / VP pumps and none of the VAG (VW / Audi / Seat / Skoda) IDI pumps had a 20mm axle. Yes, they have at Ford, PSA (Peugeot, Citroen) and most likely some others.

So please show me a pump that has got one, I would be very interested. ;)

VW 1.9 AAZ sold in Canada had a 20mm pump shaft apparently.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 10:58:41 pm by 8v-of-fury »

Reply #124November 04, 2012, 01:26:49 am

rallydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #124 on: November 04, 2012, 01:26:49 am »
Not the ones I have seen.
2006 Jetta TDI - gtb1749v, Malone 2, Frank's Titan 2 cam, VR6 clutch....
1991 Jetta TD - sold :(
2001 Golf TDI - Son's
1981 Rabbit - BEW tdi swap project

"ONCE YOU GO CLACK, YOU NEVER GO BACK"

Reply #125November 04, 2012, 10:25:06 pm

410

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #125 on: November 04, 2012, 10:25:06 pm »
At the beginning of this thread, there is a mention of late aaz pumps that might have a 20mm shaft but I have never seen one or heard of someone who has.  I had high hopes when I found an aaz pump with the big snout and adjustable sprocket but to no avail.  17mm
Toyota truck 4x4 with Mtdi, M-vnt gt1749va, 11mm pump, fmic, smog .216 nozzles.  Sold!
Working on 1993 4runner mtdi, gtb1756vk, 11mm pump, smog .216 nozzles, custom 1" thick adaptor plate, pd150 intake manifold.

Reply #126November 04, 2012, 10:45:01 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #126 on: November 04, 2012, 10:45:01 pm »
All the AAZ pumps I've seen have been 17mm.

Reply #127February 17, 2013, 09:53:57 am

Ziptar

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #127 on: February 17, 2013, 09:53:57 am »
Should I remove the AAZ 20 MM shaft reference?

Reply #128March 19, 2013, 12:43:03 pm

Tintin

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #128 on: March 19, 2013, 12:43:03 pm »
Should I remove the AAZ 20 MM shaft reference?

Yes, there is no 20mm shaft for AAZ pump.

There's some european IDI pump that have an 20mm shaft but they are not very popular.

There is no problem with a 17mm main shaft to build an M-TDI pump if you drive it decently, however I've seen many 17mm pump that the hub have slipped on the shaft when you try to push the RPM limit maxed with too much fueling, in this case, a 20mm shaft is requiered, but still it can slip at the extreme.

Reply #129March 19, 2013, 01:04:04 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #129 on: March 19, 2013, 01:04:04 pm »
I've seen many 17mm pump that the hub have slipped on the shaft when you try to push the RPM limit maxed with too much fueling, in this case, a 20mm shaft is required, but still it can slip at the extreme.

Yeah.. that whole pressed fit idea didn't really seem to good to me. I went with the original AHU pulley on the 20mm shaft Rover pump.. So it is keyed and will not slip.

Reply #130March 19, 2013, 04:53:44 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #130 on: March 19, 2013, 04:53:44 pm »
A jig and a keyway broach would make short work of adding a keyway to the hub.

Reply #131March 20, 2013, 12:21:59 pm

Tintin

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #131 on: March 20, 2013, 12:21:59 pm »
A jig and a keyway broach would make short work of adding a keyway to the hub.


Of course...

Are you Libbybapa?

Reply #132March 20, 2013, 01:15:05 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #132 on: March 20, 2013, 01:15:05 pm »
Yes that is the same Andrew ;)

Reply #133March 19, 2015, 11:29:50 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #133 on: March 19, 2015, 11:29:50 pm »
Some info for folks using Rover pumps...

The factory timing for the 200 TDI and 300 TDI without EGR is 1.54mm
The factory timing for the 300 TDI WITH EGR is 1.40 mm

I have a 300 TDI EGR pump and my pulse adapter / experimentation have let me to about 1.43mm.  Since generally speaking the factory timing is slightly retarded for emissions reasons I'd say that these timing figures are probably pretty spot on.  I've had a good running engine between 1.37-1.45 before settling where I am now.

So there you have it, the dial gauge settings you'll want to start with if you're using a Rover pump on your TDI are pretty much the same as they are on the actual Rover engine these pumps came from. :)
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #134March 27, 2015, 07:19:28 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
« Reply #134 on: March 27, 2015, 07:19:28 pm »
I looked through this FAQ and did not see a specific list of the custom bits necessary to use the Land Rover 300TDI injection pump on an AHU and an ALH.  I figured I'd add that list.

AHU:
The snout hole in the pump mounting bracket needs to be enlarged for the larger snout of the LR pump.

Because the LR pump does not have slotted mounting holes, you need to make some accommodation for timing adjustment.  My preference is to use the ALH sprocket and hub.  If you use the ALH sprocket and hub then you either need to use slightly sprocket to hub bolts that are slightly shorter than the stock ALH bolts or trim the pump case slightly where the timing pin goes.  If you use the stock ALH sprocket to hub bolts (which are single-use) without clearancing the pump case they will hit.  Another option is to file the pump mounting holes so they are slots.  If you make the pump mounting holes into slots, you can use the AHU sprocket. 
 
The plate that catches the 4th pump mounting bolt by the injection lines needs to be changed.  I've used the 1.6 plate which requires 2 additional holes to be drilled for mounting to the distributor head.

The LR delivery valves are longer.  The two options are to either swap the delivery valves for short ones or bend the metal lines to fit the LR delivery valves.  I've used TDI delivery valves and 1.6 delivery valves and either work fine and will fit the stock ALH injection lines.  I have also bent the metal fuel lines and have not had any issues after thousands of miles of use.  The downside to swapping valves is the fact that you need to source the valves and/or take them from a working pump destroying its value.  The downside to bending the lines is that if you ever have to replace a line you will need to bend that one as well.

ALH:

The LR pump snout is the correct diameter to fit the ALH pump mounting bracket.  The ALH pump mounting holes are threaded to accept the m8 bolts that fit through from the sprocket side.  The LR holes are not threaded and are too large to tap to the m8 size.  I tapped them to m10 and got the correct length m10 bolts which just barely fit through the bracket. 

The other necessary changes are the same as written in the AHU section.  The delivery valve length issue and the plate for the 4th pump mounting bolt need to be addressed. 

 

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