Author Topic: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)  (Read 1202 times)

A.Dutsov

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1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« on: October 24, 2012, 01:14:24 PM »
Hi, i own 126p from long time, now i decided to give it new heart. Rear end is cutted, front end from passat 1.9td is also available, so the joining is in process ... the plans are:

1.light ported head, nothing more than needed.
2.intake available from 1.9d ... better design than oem, egt blanked.
3.exhaust will be made for the new turbo (will use gt2256v from alfa 2.4 gtd) if i expect any issues here, please advise
4.intercooler from saab 9000 will be fitted, with very short pipes, 2x30cm 60mm pipe
5.bottom end stays untouched?
6.intake insulating gasket will be made from 5-6mm ptfe sheet
7.exhaust manifold will be wrapped, and will try to isolate the heat as much as possible
8.pump will be revised, governor mod will be done (i know how to do this, but i dont know why we do this, please some help here)
boost pin from 1.6 gtd will be available and reshaped for more fuel, and if i can fit the top cap with the smoke skrew, i will do it

my aim is at least 160hp ... more is better.
my questions for not are:
q1. What else can be done to the fuel pump, apart from sending it to giles, its not possible for me, and is not cost effective for my project. I have access to various junk yard parts, alot diesel pumps and other things. do i need to change head or something like the 11mm tdi element? whats the max rpm i can achieve with this setup, what can be done to increase the rpms.  Is this pump capable to feed the gt2256v?
q2. What are the best working temp for the diesel engine, do i need it hotter or cooler for more hp? Whats the best temp for the fuel? If needed i can fit some fuel cooler from other car ... not a problem if worth to do this.

I dont have more questions for now, if you have any suggestions, no matter what, please share, i will be more than glad to read all thing you post here, and i will also share some pictures soon!
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

mystery3

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 10:11:45 PM »
We NEED pictures! We are also jealous of your junkyards full of various turbo diesel parts, we are very limited in North America and even more so in the US.

nathantheengineer

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 11:45:34 PM »
As above!!,  I used to drive a 126 bis and it would be a proper handful with the TD in!!  It would be great fun and if no external body mods are required it would be a perfect sleeper.

Are you building it for drag racing or for the road ( or even a mix of both)?? ;D

Good luck.

A.Dutsov

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 12:40:09 AM »
Its mainly drag car, will be with 2 or 1 seats, i am not sure yet, as i dont know how much space will have after all things fitted in ... its changing construction so its illegal to drive this on the streets in bulgaria, but as i am in small city, i can take it out some time, but will not be possible to use it as daily driver ... maybe if i have place for 2 seats, i can try to take it to 'techno test' (thats place where people judge if this is well done and its safe for roads ... the problem is that i know it will be better than original, because i will put 4 disk brakes, 2 good seats, it will be wider than original, and will be better for sure, as i am building it with the original passat suspension and subframe in it ... but its up to 'ingeneers' mind in the 'techno test') but this is in the future ... i will make photos but its still in very beginning ... so it looks like kar from the junkyard ;)
Also i dont have everything ... you have cummins pumps, i only have european cars here ... like peugeots, vw, opel diesels ...
the only parts for the pump i know are good upgrade are the boost pin, and shimming the governor ... thats why i opened this thread, to get help on this, and at least info what is this pump capable to feed without other mods ...
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

nathantheengineer

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 03:53:40 AM »
Did you get Land-Rovers over there?  Have search for Rover pumps on here if you feel as though you need a larger than stock pump. Also i believe Turbo-J is using parts of the pump from an Iveco van.  His Jetta thread is truly inspirational.

Kind regards

Nathan

A.Dutsov

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2012, 08:30:21 AM »
the problem is i also want higher revving engine, so i will need some advice ... i dont have land rover in our junk yard, but if thats what i need i can buy it, i also can buy cummins if needed ... but what i read is that if i put 12mm head, i will loose the revs aftrer 4000 ... thats i dont want to do ;) I want to rev to at least 5500, if possible ... 6000. I will spray wather/methanol on the cooler, and also in the engine. I also think about using propane instead of the water/methanol in the engine, as it cost nothing to me again ... and i can use the propane to feed my car after the fuel pump cant handle anymore ... its just an option ... i am still on the chassis building, so i am reading for the future upgrades i can do ... so if you have any advices please feel free to write ;) I will make pictures soon, i just dont want to take photos of ripped off 126p, its not interesting ... after i fit the engine, i will take pictures to show how it looks like. I hope to find people here to give me advice how to have good fueling in the high rpms ;)

I found i have isuzu 1.7 pump ... the car clocks are to 6000rpm ... is it better than the 1.9td or not?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 08:43:55 AM by A.Dutsov »
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

MJF

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 09:33:20 AM »
What is Isuzu pump number? 12mm pumps can rev 5500+ without problems. Very intresting build, pictures would be cool when you have something to show :)
'74 VW Scirocco TD
'86 Audi 80q 1,9TDic
'01 Audi A6q 2,5TDI

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 10:02:36 AM »
the problem is i also want higher revving engine, so i will need some advice ... i dont have land rover in our junk yard, but if thats what i need i can buy it, i also can buy cummins if needed ... but what i read is that if i put 12mm head, i will loose the revs aftrer 4000 ... thats i dont want to do ;) I want to rev to at least 5500, if possible ... 6000. I will spray wather/methanol on the cooler, and also in the engine. I also think about using propane instead of the water/methanol in the engine, as it cost nothing to me again ... and i can use the propane to feed my car after the fuel pump cant handle anymore ... its just an option ... i am still on the chassis building, so i am reading for the future upgrades i can do ... so if you have any advices please feel free to write ;) I will make pictures soon, i just dont want to take photos of ripped off 126p, its not interesting ... after i fit the engine, i will take pictures to show how it looks like. I hope to find people here to give me advice how to have good fueling in the high rpms ;)

I found i have isuzu 1.7 pump ... the car clocks are to 6000rpm ... is it better than the 1.9td or not?

why are you spraying your drugs on the outside of the intercooler? you ar supposed to spray water/meth into the intake air stream..

and why are you gonna use propane? its very hard to safely use on a IDI engine.. it likes to blow the pre-cups out of the head..

propane is injected into the intake air, so it is not metered, and it ignites whenever the conditions are right, and that is usually before the diesel fuel charge is being ignited..

basically, running propane is like advancing your timing to DANGEROUS levels.. if you need power, run a BIGGER fuel pump than you could ever possibly need.. if you feel you still need more power, turn up your boost.. of you STILL feel you need more power, run a shot of Nos..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

A.Dutsov

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 10:11:05 AM »
the water/methanol mix is wel known mixture to spray on the intercooler, as the alcohols take from the heat ... i am new to diesels, but not to engines, i have high powered drift nissan silvia s14 and alot expirience with gas turbo engines and from my expirience the water/alcohol spray is better than spray only water ... it cools the air better. I am not sure i can explain it in english, but as the mixture evaporates from the cooler, it takes alot of heat in exchange. I read somewhere about the propane injection, and i was thinking to try it, but if you say its not safe, i will do more reading before i try.
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 10:30:12 AM »
the water/methanol mix is wel known mixture to spray on the intercooler, as the alcohols take from the heat ... i am new to diesels, but not to engines, i have high powered drift nissan silvia s14 and alot expirience with gas turbo engines and from my expirience the water/alcohol spray is better than spray only water ... it cools the air better. I am not sure i can explain it in english, but as the mixture evaporates from the cooler, it takes alot of heat in exchange. I read somewhere about the propane injection, and i was thinking to try it, but if you say its not safe, i will do more reading before i try.

throw your gasser knowledge out the window..

diesels are 100% different..

water/meth (in 50/50 quantities) when sprayed into the INTAKE actually reduces intake temps ALOT.. you are gonna see bigger drops from spraying it INTO the intake, rather than ONTO the intercooler.

as the water/meth is evaporating in the air, it is taking heat out of the air as well.. it does the same thing INSIDE the intercooler as it does when you spray it on the outside, just much more efficiently.. the heat is being transferred directly from the air, to the methanol, instead of thru a big piece of aluminum first.. the more things the heat has to pass thru before being expelled back into the ambient air, the less efficient the heat transfer is.. trust me, it works better when you spray it in the intake air, rather than across the intercooler.. plus, it cleans your engine as its being injected.. it really is better to run your water/meth charge into the engine.. i would run my sprayer nozzle about 3-12" away from the opening to the intake manifold..

and propane IS SAFE for most diesels, just not these IDI engines we run.. if you were running a TDI instead of an IDI, i would say to go for propane, but, being that you are running an IDI like the rst of us, i would AVOID PROPANE AT ALL COSTS, unless you feel like shortening the life of your engine.. being that IDI engines have much higher compression than TDI engines, the propane is ignited way sooner than it should be ignited, leading to detonation, piston erosion, and eventually, engine damage..

being overfueled, and running nitrous is MUCH SAFER.. plus, the nitrous acts as a chemical intercooler as well.. nitrous is very safe on ALL DIESEL ENGINES.. not just direct injected ones..

if it were me, i would use a large fuel pump so i had more fuel than i could burn while boosted up, and run a decent shot of nitrous on the engine..

you really dont need a water/meth system unless EGTs are really high.. i dont think you will see issues with temps, unless you go with a REALLY BIG injection pump... there is no reason NOT TO RUN methanol injection if you have it tho.. i would still run it into the intake tho, not over the intercooler..

just like those nitrous intercooler spray bars, if you take the nos running thru that, and route it into the intake instead, it would make for much larger gains..

if you want to cool your intercooler, dont screw around with methanol, shoot liquid Co2 over that thing.. it will be frosty cold in seconds!!

92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

A.Dutsov

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 10:50:11 AM »
i can use both, i never sayd i will spray only on the cooler, i was thinking to spray in and out ;) nos is also in my plans ... but what you mean by bigger pump? which pump is bigger? how big is the oem one? what hp can it supply? i am not going to do all things at once, i have 2-3 aaz engines available, also 2-3 1.6 engines ... 1y also ... i got the intake from it ... i want to spend less as possible ... as i have access to alot diesel cars in our country for cheap ;)
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 10:54:14 AM »
i can use both, i never sayd i will spray only on the cooler, i was thinking to spray in and out ;) nos is also in my plans ... but what you mean by bigger pump? which pump is bigger? how big is the oem one? what hp can it supply? i am not going to do all things at once, i have 2-3 aaz engines available, also 2-3 1.6 engines ... 1y also ... i got the intake from it ... i want to spend less as possible ... as i have access to alot diesel cars in our country for cheap ;)

bigger injection pump..

the stock injection pump wont even put out 200hp worth of fuel..

the stock 9mm plunger runs out of snoose at around 180hp..

Dave Cross Dyno'd 193hp from a (MODIFIED) stock injection pump..

you should take and build a franken pump, since you have access to soo many pieces.. (1.6TD LDA, 1.9 camplate, 10 or 11mm, maybe even 12mm plunger and head)

1Y intake is WIN!!
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

A.Dutsov

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 10:58:45 AM »
i sow the 1y intake benefit from first sight, the oem one is ... tragedy :) i already took 1.6 boost pin, i will search for bigger head, but i think i will limit my revs, i sow people putting 12mm and suffered from lowered revs like 4000 max ... i dont want this to happen to me. can i use mtdi pump on this engine? i also have tdi pumps here, and the heads for tdi pumps are sold everywhere ... for my pump i dont know from what to get.
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 11:11:08 AM »
i sow the 1y intake benefit from first sight, the oem one is ... tragedy :) i already took 1.6 boost pin, i will search for bigger head, but i think i will limit my revs, i sow people putting 12mm and suffered from lowered revs like 4000 max ... i dont want this to happen to me. can i use mtdi pump on this engine? i also have tdi pumps here, and the heads for tdi pumps are sold everywhere ... for my pump i dont know from what to get.

ive been told that you can run up past the stock 5500 rpm governor even with a 12mm plunger..

even a 10mm pump is a big upgrade from the stock 9mm unit, and the 10mm is safe for ANY RPMS you can turn on a 1.6/1.9 engine..

1Y intake is basically just a gasser intake, with D shaped ports, and an ABA throttle body flange.. its the best OEM diesel intake VW has made i feel.. the stock unit is a tragedy, i agree.. but only the TOP HALF of the OEM intake sucks.. heres what i did with the bottom half of a stock 1.6 intake..









why do you want to limit your revs? the 1.6 bottom end is good for like 7000+ revs.. the head/valvetrain is also good for more RPMs than the pump will allow..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

A.Dutsov

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Re: 1.9 td aaz engine in fiat 126p project, help will be needed ;)
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 11:20:34 AM »
I am using 1.9 bottom end for now, i want the 1.9 displacement and i dont want to limit my revs, i am ready to push it as much as possible, but i read the pump is limiting that, if i know how to make it rev more, i wont hesitate ... i am ready to buy camshaft if needed. I am not afraid to push it, as i have spare engines, and i didnt invested anything in them yet. For the first engine i wont even port the head, i will do it on one of the spare engines, where i will rebuild with aftermarket rods and oversized pistons if needed. I read about the 1.6 crank is lighter, and maybe i will throw 1.6 crank in it if it fits ... i also have tdi engine, i can take the head and build mtdi pump in some future moment if needed or if its better option for more hp.

Is the governor mod the only way to raise the revs?
THE FUTURE OF MOTORSPORT IS NO LONGER MOVING FORWARD, IT'S GOING ... SIDEWAYS ;)

 

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