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The Dynamic Advance thread...
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 13 Dec, 2011 17:43
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ok, for the longest time i thought the rev limit of these engines was 4800revs for the n/a, and 4850 for the TD..
now someone says that giles told them that the limit of the stock governor is 5300 for the n/a, and 5350 for the TD..
i have a few manuals that also claim the 4800/4850 rev limit also..
so, witch is it?
i have a shimmed governor, and i have a PRETTY HARD TIME finding 5350 rpms.. i just dont see it possible to be that high on a stock governor.
i KNOW FOR A FACT that the top speed of a stock rabbit diesel is ~85mph w/ a GC 4 spd trans.. and thats going down hill, with the wind..
with 155/80/13 tires, that translates out to 4735 rpms, witch would go right along with a 4800 rev limit..
anyways, whos right?
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#1
by
8v-of-fury
on 13 Dec, 2011 17:55
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When I said 5300rpms I was not talking top gear at WOT. I stated the terms in which a stock engine can reach 5300rpms, in neutral foot to the floor. Absolute as high as it will allow with the stock governor and stock pump settings.
I find it hard to believe that your modified engine with modified governor can not reach above 5000rpms. I have gps speed verified and then calculated exact rpm's of the motor with scirocco gear up.org, and I have had my engine (on a regular basis) to over 5500rpms, in second gear with load. My engine being a stock 1.6 na with bigger CAI and straight through exhaust. Fully shimmed solid governor as well.
What you have more than likely read is that BY 4800 rpms on the stock governor fueling is cut to an abysmal %80 of normal.
Do you have a GPS? Without an accurate measure of your speed and or engine rpm, I can't hold your acclaims accountable.
Unfortunately I am on my phone, so I cannot provide you with the emails from Giles..
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#2
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 13 Dec, 2011 17:58
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When I said 5300rpms I was not talking top gear at WOT. I stated the terms in which a stock engine can reach 5300rpms, in neutral foot to the floor. Absolute as high as it will allow with the stock governor and stock pump settings.
I find it hard to believe that your modified engine with modified governor can not reach above 5000rpms. I have gps speed verified and then calculated exact rpm's of the motor with scirocco gear up.org, and I have had my engine (on a regular basis) to over 5500rpms, in second gear with load. My engine being a stock 1.6 na with bigger CAI and straight through exhaust. Fully shimmed solid governor as well.
What you have more than likely read is that BY 4800 rpms on the stock governor fueling is cut to an abysmal %80 of normal.
Do you have a GPS? Without an accurate measure of your speed and or engine rpm, I can't hold your acclaims accountable.
Unfortunately I am on my phone, so I cannot provide you with the emails from Giles..
I HAVE A
GPS AND ACCURATE
TACHi know what my engine turns. and 5500 is into roller skipping territory. the power will go absolutely FLAT.
idk how you can turn 5500 with a N/A, but i can barely get there with a BUILT TD..
again, i have a GPS i know to be accurate, and an autometer sport comp tach.. so, my numbers are pretty undisputeable, unless you wanna argue with my tach..
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#3
by
8v-of-fury
on 13 Dec, 2011 18:10
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No sir, I do not wish to dispute what you know to be true. As we all know.. That is what will set you off. :p lol
Have you run the engine up to 5000+ in neutral? If the stock setting that you say is 4800 why is 5000+ not achievable in your mind with a modified low km pump?
Top gear wot is hardly a good test to see max rpm, as max rpm is not easily achieved when yuo have to be pushing wind and over coming other forces as well.
Can you do a 2nd gear
pull? And post your findings? Little to no wind resistance, and using a GPS to find exact speed with the online calculator to determine %100 accurate rpm. Sorry I forgot about your tach pickup man.
Can we get a few people to try this? We can get a few results up eh?
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#4
by
RabbitJockey
on 13 Dec, 2011 19:22
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It's true with out a load they will rev higher I think this may even be in the bently I'm also pretty sure that the max rpm for all the 1.6s are listed as being above 5000. Ive never seen any solid proof of a certain rpm limit. I've heard of people getting close to 7k but I've never seen any solid proof of it. Check out some of the idi dyno plots a lot of them make good power up to atleast5500 I wouldn't think they suddenly start skipping there after making good power but it's also so many variables that could effect it such as springs
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#5
by
8v-of-fury
on 13 Dec, 2011 19:25
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVGRvUUv1wQ&feature=relatedGiles recorded this in his shop, you can see our very own Tyler (burn_your_money) in his polo shirt
. I do believe it was his car as well, iirc.
As you can see on a bone stock 1.6 with 205k kms he was able to achieve 4875~ in 3rd gear at WOT with load. Take the load away and another few hundred rpm's would easily be achievable.
From what I have heard roller skipping does not occur until above 6000 rpms.
ALSO look at that, an na doesnt actually make 52hp.. 35hp... sadd
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#6
by
rabbitman
on 13 Dec, 2011 19:31
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Yeah without a load they spin pretty fast, I don't think the loss of power is due to rollers skipping but rather the governor cuts off the fueling and so you won't have enough power to spin fast woth load.
I think the 1.6D is 5400 rpm and the 1.5D is 5600 rpm with the 1.6TD at 5200ish. That's when the governor cuts fuel.
I would think that if the rollers skipped something would fall out of place and the IP would self destruct.
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#7
by
Toby
on 13 Dec, 2011 19:48
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A GPS is not an accurate speedo over short distances. Perhaps over 20 miles, but the 10 meter built in error in the worlds best system makes instantaneous readings suspect.
As I have said before, not all VW IDIs nose over at 80 mph. I have driven a large number of these cars and some stockers with 4 speeds will do 100 and many will do close to 90, with flow screw and timing mods on a fresh motor. At 275 psi compression, not so much. At 450+ its another matter.
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#8
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 13 Dec, 2011 19:58
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A GPS is not an accurate speedo over short distances. Perhaps over 20 miles, but the 10 meter built in error in the worlds best system makes instantaneous readings suspect.
As I have said before, not all VW IDIs nose over at 80 mph. I have driven a large number of these cars and some stockers with 4 speeds will do 100 and many will do close to 90, with flow screw and timing mods on a fresh motor. At 275 psi compression, not so much. At 450+ its another matter.
theres a few different 4 speeds, if you didnt know..
one of the tallest geared trannies is actually a 4 speed.
but yea, theres a couple high geared trannies, and a couple REALLY LOW GEARED trannies..
i was referring to the really low geared GC 4spd transmixer.. if you were going 100mph with a GC, your turning ~5600rpms..
but 100mph is easy with something like a GL, or 4A 4spd.. they have quite high gears.. its like driving a wide ratio 5 spd trans with a blown up 4th gear. thats the best way i can describe driving a long ratio 4spd.
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#9
by
8v-of-fury
on 13 Dec, 2011 20:13
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There isn't room for things to fall out of place, simply the plunger would not come back down fast enough to be pushed back out to inject to the next cylinder.
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#10
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 13 Dec, 2011 20:18
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There isn't room for things to fall out of place, simply the plunger would not come back down fast enough to be pushed back out to inject to the next cylinder.
yup.. well put.
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#11
by
81 vw pu
on 13 Dec, 2011 21:04
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Bentley factory specs for engine rpm.
77-80 = 5500-5600 rpm
81-83 except turbo diesel = 5300-5400 rpm
83 turbo diesel only = 5050-5150 rpm
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#12
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 13 Dec, 2011 21:17
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The Bentley lists the max rpm for the various engines. IIRC, non-turbo 1.6 is 5300 and you can definitely get a stock engine to rev that high in gear. I've done it. The little dots on the speedo represent speed for max rpm for a given gear with stock size tires.
pfft, i can pass those dots with ease..i can almost DOUBLE the reccomended speed of the dots.. lol.
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#13
by
R.O.R-2.0
on 13 Dec, 2011 21:19
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and thank you all, for the numbers..
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#14
by
8v-of-fury
on 13 Dec, 2011 21:36
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and thank you all, for the numbers..
Here is another fresh test number. I just did this not 10 minutes ago.
Car fully warmed up and up to operating temperatures, 2nd gear pull with the GPS on for my speed. I was able to hit 81km/h and it still had more.. but she does have just over 310k kms on it.. so i didn't want to push it.
81km/h with my tire combo of 185/60/14 nets me 5614 rpm's at that speed in 2nd gear. Kev your AUG trans has the same 2nd gear but the lower final.. so to reach the same rpm you would need to do 85 km/h or 53mph in 2nd gear. We both have modified governors so its achievable for sure.. no way your tellin me you car has issues doing over 5200 rpms in gear.. it should be able to spin up way higher in neutral.