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Author Topic: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods  (Read 14545 times)

February 22, 2011, 01:01:05 PM

Armyhelopilot

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1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« on: February 22, 2011, 01:01:05 PM »
All,
    Just trying to get a compilation of all the somewhat simple mods to do for a 1.6L IDI.  If I have left something off, please let me know.  I do not necessarily plan on doing all of these, but these are mods that have been discussed for the 1.6L IDI that I may consider.

Turbo:
Early TDI turbo
Intercooler
Install squirters

Fuel Pump:
Governor mainspring mod (shimmed)
Fuel pin mod (trimmed)
Smoke screw adjustment
Fuel pin plastic washer trimming
Timing piston cut down
Timing piston cover (spring side) ground down
Shim under plunger foot (I have no idea what this is) ???
10mm pump head upgrade
1.9L camplate and plungers
155bar injectors due to turbo upgrade but which ones? ???

Valves:
34mm intake (stock) to 36mm (Audi 500s)
31mm exhaust (stock) to 33mm (VW aircooled cut down)
Does anyone know of anyone who has done this?   ???  Where did they get it done? ???

Cam:
Colt Cams is the only one I have read still producing

Block:
Girdle (this means no crank scraper or windage tray due to interference)
Upgraded rods (Rostenís is building some for $450 Euro / set), unless someone knows of a better price from Scat, Pauter or Crower) ???
ARPs on rods, head
Front of crank mod to TDI serpentine
Oil pump upgrade to 36mm
Balance engine
Total Seal gapless rings

Head:
Port and polish
3 angle valve job
(Are the factory valve spring good enough? If not, replace with what?) ???
O-ring the head (Who does this for VW heads and where online can I get the o-rings?) ???

Thanks a lot.  Just trolling for ideas on a 1.6L N/A into a 1993 Geo Tracker 2 door 4x4 with an Acme Adapters conversion kit.  I already have the 1.6 N/A block before anyone suggests a 1.6L TD or a 1.9 TDI!


1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #1February 22, 2011, 01:15:25 PM

ktownboostn

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 01:15:25 PM »
Giles does IDI cams aswell

I like what your doing here !
1989 Audi 90q, 1991 VW Jetta GTX, 1992 VW Golf TD

Reply #2February 22, 2011, 01:47:46 PM

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 01:47:46 PM »
All,
    Just trying to get a compilation of all the somewhat simple mods to do for a 1.6L IDI.  If I have left something off, please let me know.  I do not necessarily plan on doing all of these, but these are mods that have been discussed for the 1.6L IDI that I may consider.

Turbo:
Early TDI turbo - might be a little small.. a VNT would be better
Intercooler
Install squirters - not needed unless you are holding it at like 1200* egt for a very long time.. ask me how i know.

Fuel Pump:
Governor mainspring mod (shimmed)
Fuel pin mod (trimmed) - only needed on a n/a pump
Smoke screw adjustment
Fuel pin plastic washer trimming - only needed on a TD pump top
Timing piston cut down - theres an easier way.
Timing piston cover (spring side) ground down - why?
Shim under plunger foot (I have no idea what this is) ??? - again, why?
10mm pump head upgrade - again, why
1.9L camplate and plungers - same..
155bar injectors due to turbo upgrade but which ones? ???

the plunger spacer, plunger, pump head, and cam plate are basically matched up to operate properly..

and you really dont need 155 bar injectors.. im running fresh 135 bar injectors in my engine.
and Dave Cross was building right around 200 hp with a stock pump head and injectors..

as for the advance piston/cover mods, theres a much easier way to do this. just install a TDI advance spring cover.


Valves: - Install AAZ head and be done with it.
34mm intake (stock) to 36mm (Audi 500s)
31mm exhaust (stock) to 33mm (VW aircooled cut down)
Does anyone know of anyone who has done this?   ???  Where did they get it done? ???


Cam: - Dr Diesel and Giles make cams..
Colt Cams is the only one I have read still producing

Block:
Girdle (this means no crank scraper or windage tray due to interference)
Upgraded rods (Rostenís is building some for $450 Euro / set), unless someone knows of a better price from Scat, Pauter or Crower) ???
ARPs on rods, head
Front of crank mod to TDI serpentine
Oil pump upgrade to 36mm
Balance engine - not super necessary, since our engines only turn a limited number of RPMs.. 5600 is about all you can get out of these.
Total Seal gapless rings

Head:
Port and polish - intake side is alright, the exhaust ports are what really need opened up
3 angle valve job
(Are the factory valve spring good enough? If not, replace with what?) ??? - dont need much better valve springs, these engines wont run enough boost, or turn enough rpms..
O-ring the head (Who does this for VW heads and where online can I get the o-rings?) ??? - never seen or heard of getting a VW o-ringed, and i dont think it would do much good, because the head is the weak spot. it actually flexes when theres lots of boost. o-rings are not going to fix this issue. or else you pull the head studs right out of the block, again, o-rings wouldnt fix that.

Thanks a lot.  Just trolling for ideas on a 1.6L N/A into a 1993 Geo Tracker 2 door 4x4 with an Acme Adapters conversion kit.  I already have the 1.6 N/A block before anyone suggests a 1.6L TD or a 1.9 TDI!


i really dont think you need such a hot rod engine, you are just going to eat trannies with it.. those tracker trannies are only reliable up to about 130 ft lbs of torque. and it doesnt take much to get 130 ft lbs out of a VW diesel. a TDI would have the guts torn out of that trans in short order..

if i were you, and i were set on building a hot rod VW Diesel.. i would swap in a toyota pickup transmission and be done with it.

ever seen a tracker transmixer torn apart? the shafts inside it look more like tooth picks than transmission shafts..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #3February 22, 2011, 10:00:03 PM

dieselschlepper

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 10:00:03 PM »
Do the heads flex because of the IDI chamber?  O rings usually prevent head gaskets from blowing and they seem more likely to blow if the head flexes.  How much boost can a VW IDI handle? 

Reply #4February 22, 2011, 10:12:48 PM

maxfax

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 10:12:48 PM »
Look into the multi layer steel (MLS) gasket as used on the AAZ..  That should handle the task quite well..  Far less the cost of O-ringing the block with about the same results..  AS ROR mentioned the head itself is the weak point, the IDI chambers may be some of it, but the fact that it's aluminum is the main thing....  23:1 compression plus 30 or 40lbs of boots on top of that, something gotta move, and it usually isn't anything in the bottom end..  AS far as the boost limit, IIRC most are running around 30lbs..  I think 40 is about the limit...

Also as Kevin mentioned, if you gonna be putting that much torque tot he thing, you need to think about a trans upgrade..  Heck I've seen the stock gasser bust them up...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:15:54 PM by maxfax »

Reply #5February 23, 2011, 12:00:25 AM

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 12:00:25 AM »
All,

    Thanks for the input.  ROR....My intent is not to build a hot rod.  I am just trying to see what all mods are available and out there, get feedback about each one, and then decide on which ones to do.  Remember, I never said I was going to do any or all of them.  :)

As far as your input....some clarification please:

early TDI turbo....you suggest a VNT, how can I run a VNT turbo without electronics to actuate it? Vacuum, boost?

squirters.....These I will install.  This is my wife's daily driver as well as our weekend fun truck and I cannot guarantee she will not run it hot on her watch.  She has alreay run a 4.3 Chevy van through water and hydrolocked it. So, this is insurance...and a way to save me mechanic time!

Pump mods:
I have no idea why half of these mods are...that is why I am asking?!?!  They are not my posts...I have just read of people doing them.

Nice to know about the injector pressure.  Have you tried 155s to see what it would do?  I will be going from a NA pump to TD so it would seem you would need to match the pump with injectors.....


The advance spring cover from a TDI would save a lot of trouble.  Do you have a PN?  What difference is there in it an a TD?

Has anyone compared the cams between Colt, Dr Diesel and Giles?

And you pretty much answered the question of the oring.  Never saw a parts site offering o-rings for a VW.

I have heard the 5 speed trannies in the Trackers were rated higher than that.  I do have 4.30s front and rear to get the RPMs down on the interstate and to offset that offroad, I have ordered the 4.24:1 transfer case gears to make it more friendly on the trails.  Nothing extreme mind you.

It would be nice to put a Toyo 22R in it but then my $700.00 adapter kit would be useless.  I would have to buy ANOTHER $700.00 adapter kit to a 22R.

    Again, everyone thanks for the input and if you still have input....let me hear it.
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #6February 23, 2011, 12:25:48 AM

maxfax

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 12:25:48 AM »
Sounds like the oil squirters would be some good insurance..   ;)

AS far as the injectors there has been some discussion on this..  The 155 bar injectors flow the same amount of fuel as the 135 bar..  The difference is the breaking pressure (the pressure that they pop open)
I'm not sure sure there has even been a reason given on here as to why VW changed the pressure on the

Many have run a turbo with the 135 bar and been just fine..  There have been some reports of better economy and smoother quieter operation with the higher breaking pressure on both NA and TD engines.... TD engines..  I'm assuming the biggest difference between the higher and lower pressure is going to be timing related... 

The larger pump head would allow the pump to flow more fuel due to the larger plunger.. I can;t verify if either make a significant difference..  IIRC, the 1.9 cam plate has more aggressive lobes that both push the plunger in faster and allow for more travel of the plunger thus moving more fuel faster.. Many have been just fine with the stock head and cam plate making plenty of power, others here I'm sure can chime in with more details on results...

Reply #7February 23, 2011, 12:49:19 AM

dankcorey22

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 12:49:19 AM »
R.O.R- I disagree with only porting the exhaust side. I think you should leave the exhaust alone and only port the intake to gasket. If port the exhaust yes more volume is going through but the air is not flowing as fast there for more turbo lag/ less boost. Thats just my 2 cents
MY CARs-BLACK 99.5 Jetta TDI 5 speed 93,000- DC Stage 2 Clutch Kit 14Lb FW, Afe air intake box, 2.5" DP, 11mm IP, 2.5" stright piped, boost gauge, PP764, RC5 (WOW), 3-Bar, McNally EGT/Boost, 17/22, Race Pipe, EGR Cooler Delete, PD lift pump, R32 MAF housing,FMIC

1983 VW Jetta 1.6 turbo fuel mods

Reply #8February 23, 2011, 12:53:24 AM

maxfax

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 12:53:24 AM »
Max, the 135bar injectors have been shown to result in *better* fuel economy.  The 15bar injectors reduce smoke.  My explanation is that the fuel squirted at 135bar requires less drag on the engine than the same amount of fuel squirted at 155bar, but the fuel squirted at the higher pressure is more atomized and so burns more cleanly.  The increased efficiency of the cleaner burn doesn't offset the extra energy required to squirt at the higher pressure.

Makes sense..  Could be that in the previous discussion months ago about is that when they rebuilt the injectors to a higher pressure that simply having new nozzles in the mix made the noticeable economy difference..

Quote
The high pressure portion of the injection pump is exactly the same between the N/A pump and the TD pump.  You need to match the timing spec to the type of injectors, but not the pump to the injectors.

Yes..  Could that be partly be why they used the 2 different breaking pressures?  My theory has always been it would be cheaper to change the spring/shim in the injector than it would be to make major changes to the pump.. Of course why the difference in the first place?  Ultimately I always assumed the main reason for the difference was something related to emissions.. Maybe as simple as higher breaking pressure = less smoke...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 12:55:41 AM by maxfax »

Reply #9February 23, 2011, 02:54:47 AM

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 02:54:47 AM »
All,

    This is great discussion an exactly why I posted this.

    I would rather slightly overbuild the engine and not need it than have to go back and do more upgrades later.  Plus, this is going to be my son's first vehicle when he is old enough.  That is why I would rather have it built to withstand a lot later.  Right now, my wife probably will not be taxing this thing.  However, I am sure my son will at some point in time when he owns it.
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #10February 23, 2011, 10:10:36 AM

nathan_b

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 10:10:36 AM »
sons first car? give him a 1.5na.
Let's see him try to hot rod around town in that.

81 caddy frankentd 02a, 99.9 tdi jetta, 00 golf

Reply #11February 23, 2011, 10:52:41 AM

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 10:52:41 AM »
All,

    Thanks for the input.  ROR....My intent is not to build a hot rod.  I am just trying to see what all mods are available and out there, get feedback about each one, and then decide on which ones to do.  Remember, I never said I was going to do any or all of them.  :)

As far as your input....some clarification please:

early TDI turbo....you suggest a VNT, how can I run a VNT turbo without electronics to actuate it? Vacuum, boost?

squirters.....These I will install.  This is my wife's daily driver as well as our weekend fun truck and I cannot guarantee she will not run it hot on her watch.  She has alreay run a 4.3 Chevy van through water and hydrolocked it. So, this is insurance...and a way to save me mechanic time!

Pump mods:
I have no idea why half of these mods are...that is why I am asking?!?!  They are not my posts...I have just read of people doing them.

Nice to know about the injector pressure.  Have you tried 155s to see what it would do?  I will be going from a NA pump to TD so it would seem you would need to match the pump with injectors.....


The advance spring cover from a TDI would save a lot of trouble.  Do you have a PN?  What difference is there in it an a TD?

Has anyone compared the cams between Colt, Dr Diesel and Giles?

And you pretty much answered the question of the oring.  Never saw a parts site offering o-rings for a VW.

I have heard the 5 speed trannies in the Trackers were rated higher than that.  I do have 4.30s front and rear to get the RPMs down on the interstate and to offset that offroad, I have ordered the 4.24:1 transfer case gears to make it more friendly on the trails.  Nothing extreme mind you.

It would be nice to put a Toyo 22R in it but then my $700.00 adapter kit would be useless.  I would have to buy ANOTHER $700.00 adapter kit to a 22R.

    Again, everyone thanks for the input and if you still have input....let me hear it.


there are threads about how to cable operate a VNT..

squirters are not super necessary unless you are going to be holding it at 1250* stack temp.. and if you do squirters, i would use the 1.8t squirters, they have a much simpler installation..

you prolly are not gonna want the pump turned up too far, because you say your not building a hot rod.. if you turn the pump up, it will break trannies real good.

TDI advance cover is much deeper, allowing the advance piston to travel farther..

you can run whatever injectors you want with whatever pump you want for the post part, just gotta set the timing appropriately..
i think you time the 135bars to .83mm, and the 155bars to .95mm

as for the transmission weakness, you ARE going to break tranny input shafts.. ever looked at the input shaft for a sammi/tracker trans? they are super duper tiny..

the thing to do is to use a VW diesel, a 22r trans and Tcase.. throw it all in the tracker..

i dont believe they make a VW-Toyota adapter.. i know some people have custom made their own fairly easy tho.

if you over build the engine to save yourself from working on IT, thats fine, you will just be working on other things, like the TRANNY.

your son is gonna make the tranny puke bits all over the road when he trys to do his first burn out..  ;D
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #12February 23, 2011, 11:15:58 AM

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 11:15:58 AM »
ROR,

    That is why he is going to help me build it now...so that when he breaks it, he will know how to fix it!!
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #13February 23, 2011, 11:18:43 AM

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2011, 11:18:43 AM »
ROR,

    Also, Acme does have a Bare Bones kit that adapts the 1.6L to a 22R. $425.00.
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #14February 23, 2011, 11:21:31 AM

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2011, 11:21:31 AM »
ROR,

    Also, Acme does have a Bare Bones kit that adapts the 1.6L to a 22R. $425.00.

well crap, its cheap as he!!, and it will work great!

but you would prolly need most of the kit you already have also, unless it comes with motor mounts and stuff..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

 

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