1.5na IP... Newbie & Nervous

[mstephenson]

I have been pouring over the posts and have a few questions: 1.5na

I want to change out my injector pump and am terrified to do so  .  This is my brother's idea of learning mechanics:  buy a German engineered automobile to learn on, but also because everything is 'mechanical'.  Really, because he doesn't want to work on my stuff anymore.
I bought a re-built pump in '06? and never put it on or filled it up with any fluid.  It has been wrapped in an oil soaked towel.  Are the seals ruined and internals rusted?  or should I try the 'experiment' for learning purposes anyway?

A theory question:  I understand why timing is important for the crank/cam.  Is there also a 'tdc' for the IP? Or is this something I should just go through the exercise until it dawns on me a few years from now.  I do read.  I have the technician manual from Vince's site and plan to do all that testing as well.  I have the Bentley.

Can the OEM fuse box be replaced with something less prone to catch on fire?  Mine has some melting by PO.  I am thinking that will take care of the no-start ignition and sizzling I hear every now and then.

Do you need special tools to remove the injectors?  I saw a socket or something by Snapon specifically for this?

I just hate tearing something down, being stuck and it never gets fixed and pieces everywhere.  It's terrible for the current owner and the next owner.

I just want Rusty to run again  and then I can improve/fix a little at a time.

Thanks all,

Michele

[doonboggle]

You and me both ... nervous.  I also am a novice reading as much as I can ... and I also support the work that Vince has posted elsewhere ... and herein.

IP pump on my 1.6L rabbit has a mark to 'begin' close to it's setting ... along with the flywheel, and also a groove etched into the sprocket.

But to be 'on spot', everyone says to use the timing kit.  Others are successful with the ear method, feel mode, etc. .... but from what I read, that is 'iffy' ... and 'may' wind up ruining the engine if not close enough.

The kits are not that costly ... like 70-80 bucks.  There's a 'chinese' merchant fellow back east .. Prothe I think ... that sells them for 72.00 ... last I checked.  Got one and let a mechanic use it to time my rabbit ... and he wound up buying it from me for his shop ... so it was at least good enough for him.

Your other points ... gonna keep an eye for responses so that I can learn also.

Welcom aboard!!

I have been pouring over the posts and have a few questions: 1.5na

I want to change out my injector pump and am terrified to do so  .  This is my brother's idea of learning mechanics:  buy a German engineered automobile to learn on, but also because everything is 'mechanical'.  Really, because he doesn't want to work on my stuff anymore.
I bought a re-built pump in '06? and never put it on or filled it up with any fluid.  It has been wrapped in an oil soaked towel.  Are the seals ruined and internals rusted?  or should I try the 'experiment' for learning purposes anyway?

A theory question:  I understand why timing is important for the crank/cam.  Is there also a 'tdc' for the IP? Or is this something I should just go through the exercise until it dawns on me a few years from now.  I do read.  I have the technician manual from Vince's site and plan to do all that testing as well.  I have the Bentley.

Can the OEM fuse box be replaced with something less prone to catch on fire?  Mine has some melting by PO.  I am thinking that will take care of the no-start ignition and sizzling I hear every now and then.

Do you need special tools to remove the injectors?  I saw a socket or something by Snapon specifically for this?

I just hate tearing something down, being stuck and it never gets fixed and pieces everywhere.  It's terrible for the current owner and the next owner.

I just want Rusty to run again  and then I can improve/fix a little at a time.

Thanks all,

Michele

[8v-of-fury]

WELCOME TO THE BOARD MICHELE!

As for changing out the Injection Pump, its nothing at all. Have you ever changed a tire? Swapping an IP is just as easy, its the timing that takes a little time

Your going to want to turn the engine by hand to TDC. First things first. Take the upper timing cover off, as well as the valve cover. 3 or so bolts hold on the tming cover, and 8 bolts hold the valve cover on. After you have this done pop the little plastic plug out of the tranny just on the driver side of the engine, so the flywheel is visible (this will be needed to locate the TDC mark on the flywheel). 19mm? I believe fits the crank sprocket to turn the motor. Following vinces guide on "How To Se Injection Pump Timing" it will show in detail on how to locate TDC. After that the pump and belt can come off. It is best to order a new Timing belt and tensioner along with new Glow plugs (as we all know how much of a pita they are to get at with the pump still in place) if you don't know when any were changed last. (cheap insurance if you ask me).

There is 4 13mm bolts holding the pump to the engine, and the big nut on the pump sprocket. 17mm wrench will take off the metal fuel lines that run from pump to injector. Take all these off and separate it from the ip bracket, take the fuel lines, cold start advance cable off the back and throttle cable off the top and VOILA! The pump is good to come out.

With the pump out now is a good time to also take out and replace the glow plugs, as the two left ones are almost impossible to get at with the pump in place. You might also want to check out Vince's guide for "pimping the Glow Plugs".. Its a very good way to ensure you are getting full power to your gp's upon use.

All in all, this forum will help you achieve pretty much anything that needs to be done to your "German engineered automobile" lol

Good luck and again welcome!

[8v-of-fury]

I too have a Prothe timing gauge. I have no complaints about the quality of it at all.

it was worth the $70 i paid for it.

[745 turbogreasel]

Fuse box on fire?  Mine was much more frequently holding water

The pump should be fine unless it was outside under a towel.

not sure why you want to remove injectors, but all you need is a 27 MM deep socket, and you need new heat shields for underneath them.

[410]

You might want to check and see if you're getting power to the shut off solenoid on the injection pump when the key is on.  Your injection pump might be okay but if the solenoid is not getting power then it will not push fuel to the injectors.

[mstephenson]

Thanks 8v-of-fury that makes me feel like I can actually do it.  And yes I do/can change tires even though I won't date a guy that can't 

Have the dial and lock pin.  will a piece of billet do for the cam plate or should I order one when I get the two-prong tensioner thingy?

History of the car.  I'm second owner.  78 4-door, 1.5 4-speed, sunroof, A/C (VOA), 261K miles, and interior is IMMACULATE.  The registration tags have 1994 and it was parked until 2005 when I bought it for 300$.  Checked that motor still turned.  Got it home and emptied tank and all other fluids and filters.  Refilled.  New battery.  And turned that starter over until it nearly exploded. And Rusty was re-born and I am hooked!!!

You guys may take it for granted after all this time, but the simplicity and elegance of it all is really something.  No throttle body or OBDC hookup or electronic this or that.

OK, so the pump does have to be changed as there was so much diesel coming out of the shaft and puddling up I could smell it sitting at intersections.  and it still got 36mpg!

Thought I would have injectors tested/replaced while it's all getting done.

Will get new glow plugs as well.  They are the slow ones.  Is this the time to change them over to the fast ones and pimp fuses or wait?

Thanks yall so much.  I've waited 5 years to do this.

[8v-of-fury]

http://www.autopartsway.com/autoparts2/index.cfm?fetch=part~ID=1981~Volkswagen~Jetta%20Diesel%20Base%201.6%20L4~240808

First one on that page! Known as Bosch Duraterms or the best by many. They will work with either the fast or slow gp relay, and are better than every other one on the market. They are actually for the Post-92 AAZ diesel engines, and used for there "Afterglow" system. Where the gps stay on for up to 3 minutes on those chilly mornings to aid in emissions and cold starts. I have them and recommend them to everyone who is looking for gp's. I am using them with Vince's pimped setup and it is a very good setup. Manual switch on my dash activates the solenoid under the hood which sends nearly 12v straight to the plugs instead of the 9 they are getting from the stock wiring. Most certainly time to get the new plugs in when you have the pump out, and at least start the wiring, and get rid of the copper buss bar.. so that you don't have to necessarily finish it all up.. but at least get whatever done that will be hidden behind the pump.

"From Simplicity, Came Elegance" I agree with you, they are the best things to work on!

Injectors pop tested and/or replaced while your already doing work is a great idea.

I have a leaking pump with a popcan strapped to the bottom of it to keep the fuel off the rad hoses till I have time to fix it !

[RustyCaddy]

Some people have replaced the Pre-1981 fuseboxes with the ones found on late 80's Cabby's...you might check on VWCaddy.com if interested...a poster who went by "Iowacaddy" had the diagrams but said you needed some soldering experience going into it.

If your getting water on the fusebox you can cut a thin piece of plastic (like from a plastic milk jug or veg oil cubie) and slide it between the firewall and the top of the fusebox...the plastic needs to extend out past the wiring pigtails and beyond the seam where the firewall bends in an L-shape nearer the steering wheel; that way if you have a common leak above the box it will still drip but the water runs down past the fusebox and drips off the wiring past the pigtails at the back of the box to the floor.  Or you can figure out how to stop the leak in the first place...please post that for us if you figure out how 

The fuseboxes are helped out by adding relays to the system where the wiring is a little under rated and tends to burn out on these boxes; like for the headlights and blower motor.

[burn_your_money]

Before you remove the timing belt get some practice in with your tools. Follow the Bentley's procedure for timing the engine as if you had just replaced the belt. Don't loosen or remove anything, just go through the motions. It is very important to get repeatable readings from the dial indicator. The car runs now so it's likely that it's timed "close enough" Don't be surprised or alarmed if you find cam/crank timing off a bit or even the pump timing to be off by quite a few mm.

You don't need the special tool for the cam. A door hinge, wrench, piece of flat stock etc will work fine. I used to just do it by eye to be honest. As for the tensioner tool, I find them completely useless. You can easily get more then enough tension by simply pulling on the tensioner by hand. I find this gives you much more room to get your wrench in there to tighten up the tensioner nut.

Just remember to turn the engine over 2 times by hand before even touching the starter.

Before you take anything apart, remove the OUT bolt on the pump and look inside. If you see it's full of rust, well then you know what to do. Also remove the front advance cover. It is held on by 2 T30 screws. If water got into your pump through the IN then this is the first place you will see problems. You can reuse the o-ring in there.

Good luck

[mstephenson]

update -- I decided not to work on Rusty (78).  I bought a battery and put it into Rudy (77) and eveything powered up so we'll be focusing on that one.  It is an early model and was manufactured in 04/77.  I'm saying this because of the flywheel mark.


Question:  If it's hard to turn at the crank is that the compression and I assume it's a good thing?

Finding TDC:  Should the lobes for #1 be equal in height? or is this relevant?

I took two pics of the markers, but don't know how to upload.

The first mark (or to the left of the mark below) is the "0".  Can someone confirm that is the 6deg BEFORE TDC?
The second mark (to the right of the mark above) I have not seen on this site.  It is not a stamp, but part of the flywheel cast.  It is a "V" with the letter part removed leaving the inside of the V part cast in the flywheel.  Is the centerline of this mark TDC?

I'm asking also because the cam lines up with the "0".  and so now I'm not sure of anything   

[mstephenson]

The first description

http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af252/mstephenson_rusty/?action=view&current=IMG_0079.jpg&newest=1


The second description

http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af252/mstephenson_rusty/?action=view&current=IMG_0078.jpg&newest=1

[8v-of-fury]

Your first picture is TDC.

The lobes being pointed both up is just a reference to tell you that you have #1 at the top of its compression stroke, where it needs to be for TDC. That little "V" in the flywheel in your first picture, will disappear if you move the crank even the slightest. Following Vince's How-To with that mark as your crank TDC, and then making sure the came slot is perfectly horizontal.. Perfect cam/crank timing

I think you should get both running Rusty and Rudy! I like it, do you have any pictures of them?

If you take your two links, and do them like this [img ] link [/img ] with no spaces after the word img, then it will post them in the post.

Also if it is hard to turn the engine at the crank, think you are fighting at least 400psi as you try and force the cylinder up on the compression stroke.. If it's really hard to turn, you have really good compression lol

Lets get some pics

[mstephenson]

Thanks yall.  I will be painting that notch in the morning.  Now I'm back on tract except the rebuilt pump sitting on the shelf has blue dots all over it and the receipt says 1.6.  I emailed Giles about a fix.  So I'm going to time the existing pump and only change out the belt and tensioner.  When it starts leaking I'll deal with it.

So, I've started pimping GP and ordered new ones from the recommended site and ripping out interior and copycatting Riddleyo on that (thanks man).

Ordered my window seals and had to offer up my first born.  OMG!  The price of staying dry...

My guy (Henry) at Gary Shelton in Bryan, TX (866-540-6311 toll free) is going to hook me up with everything else I need.  Yall should try him; he ships anywhere.  When I first called him about some parts for Rusty he knew the car and the original owner.  He was there when she bought it in 1978!

Tried again to load pics and got the little box with an "X" in it.  Dangit.  Will be starting the visual diary if this works I'll load it all up.

Thanks,

Michele

[mstephenson]

Well, I am 'practicing' as recommended so I have only changed out the belt and left everything original.  Part of the reason is that I'm excited and want to hear it run and I don't want to do all this work if it's going to explode.

I have gotten to the TDC on the crank, cam, and IP.  I have pics for you to see if that's good enough or not acceptable. Please let me know. The next time will be for real and forever.

Crank TDC:



Cam TDC:



IP TDC:



It finally dawned on me I can use the 1.6 pump as long as I time it accordingly so when the rain comes and goes this week I will replace IP, GP, tensioner, test injectors, etc.

Observations so far:

There was some oil pooled in the air filter housing.
There was hardly any oil in pan and black as night.  Nothing milky though.
The fuel filter (see pic) had so much sludge in it I'm praying it didn't make it past that point.



After draining tank should I blow out line from tank to filter?

And here are some of pics of what I have in Hutch:

Rusty:



Robin:



Rudy:





Thanks,

Michele