Stock vw t3 turbo compressor upgrade

[subsonic]

Anyone ever try to upgrade the stock t3 by going to a larger compressor wheel and housing?  Turbine and center section would remain the same.  No manifold or oil line changes.  No DP changes.  Perhaps a small change for intake and charge pipe due to slightly larger comp housing.  
I am not talking about a jump all the way to a t4, but something larger while staying in the t3 family.  As an example, while I had a merc t3 and a vw t3 apart, I tried out the merc comp wheel and comp housing on the base vw t3.  This was just a dry fit to see if they would go and the setup was never run, but it sure looked like it was a perfect fit.  I am guessing this would help move a larger volume of air at a lower tempature, both good things.  Anyone ever try it?  Opinions?

[AdAm84]

I don't see why that would not work. It basically changing the trim and A/R of the comp side. The turbo dodge boys have been doing this stuff for a long time; Grand National Compressor sides on Turbo Dodge centers with Ford Exhaust sides (for the bigger .63 A/R). Most of the T-3 stuff is pretty interchangable.

[cuaz64]

Maybe you should try the T3 used in Volvo/VW D24T engine, or the one used in the Volvo B230FT, the gas versión use a .42 or .48 exhaust A/R and a .45 intake A/R. Good luck

[subsonic]

Whats the stock A/R on the t3 comprssor?  Anyone know trim and wheel spec's?

I am going to go take some photo's of the merc compressoe housing next to the vw comp housing.  I will also take photo's of the wheels.

[subsonic]

Who has the specs for the stock vw garret t3, map trim etc.
For comparison here are the specs for the merc compressor.  

 TA0-301
.42 A/R Compressor
Part number  409096-0008
Wheel diameter mm (A) 60,00
Inducer diameter mm (B) 40,50
Tip height mm (C)  4,10
Wheel bore diameter 6,00
TRIM 45
Here is the turbo map for it.


Photos of the two compressor housings and wheels side by side.  

VW on left Merc on right.  You might be able to see the opening size difference.





Shot of the wheels side by side.  Wheel on turbo is vw.


Wheel shots to show blade size difference.



Shot to show difference in size with merc compressor on stock wheel.  Notice the increased space around the wheel.


Merc comp housing on merc wheel.


Merc comp housing sitting on vw t3.

[Otis2]

Who has the specs for the stock vw garret t3, map trim etc.
For comparison here are the specs for the merc compressor.  

 TA0-301
.42 A/R Compressor
 45 Trim
Here is the turbo map for it.

Here is the compressor map for the T3 that is stock on 1.6 TD VW engines, which I believe is 0.36 A/R:



JackBombay posted some reference points of several comparative turbo maps over at the Samba, for people with turbodiesel vans.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=304473&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

[subsonic]

Who has the specs for the stock vw garret t3, map trim etc.
For comparison here are the specs for the merc compressor.  

 TA0-301
.42 A/R Compressor
 45 Trim
Here is the turbo map for it.

Here is the compressor map for the T3 that is stock on 1.6 TD VW engines, which I believe is 0.36 A/R:



JackBombay posted some reference points of several comparative turbo maps over at the Samba, for people with turbodiesel vans.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=304473&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

also found this:
 T3  compressor wheel  
   6 blades
 
Part number:    409096-0010
Wheel diameter mm (A)60,00
 Inducer diameter mm (B)  35,40
Tip height mm (C) 3,00
Wheel bore diameter     6,00
TRIM     35

Or this boosted from jake

Check it out...  A blow-up parts diagram with parts numbers for the 1.6lTD Garrett TA0304B is available on-line  here and specs on the compressors are available here, and turbine wheels here.  Referencing the appropriate part numbers to these tables, and using the measurements I took directly from the guts of the 1.6lTD KKK turbo, we can compare these turbos more closely...

garrett compressor:
  blades: 6
  wheel diameter: 60.00mm
  inducer bore: 35.40mm
  tip height: 3.00mm

kkk compressor:
  blades: 6 major, 6 minor (12 total)
  wheel diameter: 60.5mm
  inducer bore: 37.5mm
  tip height: 4mm

findings: nearly identical compressor wheel OD means pressure ratio capability of the two are about equal.  However, ~6% larger inducer bore of the KKK means it can flow a bit more air.  There is also a very significantly greater tip height with the KKK turbo (33% greater on the KKK).

garrett turbine:
  blades: 11
  wheel diameter: 59.00 mm
  exducer bore diameter: 49.00mm

kkk turbine:
  blades: 12
  wheel diameter: 59mm
  exducer bore diameter: 49.5mm

findings: except for one additional blade on the kkk turbine, the turbine sections have nearly identical specs.[/quote]

[Otis2]

I just noticed the X axis of the map that I posted earlier was calibrated in kg/s, instead of the usual lb/min.  

Jack Bombay recalibrated the 1.6 TD T3 map with an X axis of lb/min, and I want to post his work here beside subsonic's map, so the X axis is common to both.

[subsonic]

Nice! Thanks.

[Rabbit on Roids]

im pretty sure thats all prothe does, just uses a merc cold side on a VW turbo..

[subsonic]

I did not know he was doing that.  Just for the sake of the conversation, the comp does not need to be a merc unit.  That was what I happened to have on the turbo shelf sitting next to the t3.  Any larger comp wheel or housing in the t3 family is open to the conversation.

[Rabbit on Roids]

im debating on what sort of turbo to put on my car next. but it needs to be something. think a t3 like the one you set up would work very good? spool time be a little longer cause of the huge wheel?

[subsonic]

I have never run it so I dont know.  It will still have the .36 A/R turbine which should have pretty quick spool.  I posted in the gtg section for the  dyno day that I would send them the merc comp housing and wheel if they wanted to give it a go on the dyno for actual comparison testing.

In checking out the two different compressor maps, there is not a huge difference.  There is some for sure, but nothing like if you went to a t04.
If someone with a good setup with guages etc wanted to run it on the dyno I would be interested to see the side by side differences.  Might need to turn up the fuel some to take advantage of greater flow.

[Rabbit on Roids]

i have plenty of fuel for sure. my car pours out some black smoke at low speeds if you arent careful on the pedal.

[ikas]

so if a k24 have a similar configuracion than a modify t3 ,why not buy a k24?