My new 2009 Jetta TDI

[subsonic]

Sunroof switch turned out to be faulty, will have it replaced when I go in for my 10k mile oil change.  Trunk light assembly had to be replaced.  
Have just under 10k on the car now.
I had a no start situation this morning that is pissing me off.  My wife came in and tells me "the new car wont start."  WTH?  I go out, thinking it may have been operator error, and try to start it.  Turns over great----no fire.  WTF.  Turn off the key, turn on the key wait a second and crank again, for about 5 seconds.  The engine catches and runs like complete ass.  Sounds like it is only on two cylinders.  Dies after about 4 seconds of stumbling.  Crank it again, same deal. Dies.  Crank it one last time and rev it up to about 3 grand once it catches. Engine comes back to normal idle.  Drove it 60 miles or so in to work, ran fine.   I noticed the week before when I started it I had a difficult time holding the idle steady while I was reving up the engine to try and get some heat going to melt through the inch of ice on the windshield.  I tried to hold it just under 2k but it would wander up or down about 300rpm no matter how I worked the pedal.  
So I call the dealer where I bought the carand get, "Sounds like water in the fuel, time to drain the filter.  Those things are great at catching water."    Anyone else hear of a no start / hard start situation on the 2.0 TDI ?

[rallydiesel]

Not on the CR, but I had a problem with my anti-shudder valve sticking shut ('06 PD). I don't know if the CR's have one or where it is but you might want to check that out. I had mine replaced under warranty.

[subsonic]

How does the anti-shudder valve function?

[jtanguay]

all electronic tdi's have the anti shudder valve as far as i know... its almost like a throttle plate.  technically you can just jam it open and your car will run great, but will have the 'shudder' of the older diesels upon shut down.  i think that is its only purpose.  

sub yours will be servo controlled whereas older ones use vacuum.  my '06 PD motor has a servo controlled unit.  i suppose yours could be sticking, but hard to believe on such a new car.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=128812

that thread shows an easy way of checking the vacuum controlled ones, but the servo ones don't have the arm that you can manually actuate.

[rallydiesel]

Mine was sticking and I only had the car a couple months, if that. jtanguay is correct but it also works with the EGR to feed the recirc. gases. It closes part-way when the EGR duty cycle is active.

On the BRM you can easily unclip the intercooler pipe just before the anti-shudder valve and actually see the flap valve. Yours is probably different but check just before the intake manifold there should be two assemblies.

The one closest to the intake mani would be the EGR and the one upstream of that should be the ASV assembly. Your intercooler pipe should hook-up to this with an easy to disengage circlip-type ring.

Just stick a flat screwdriver under the clip and pry up a bit and the IC pipe should unlock and be able to be slid off. You should now be able to see the flap valve and see if it is stuck.

[rallydiesel]

I had similar symptoms to yours. Car would crank but not fire up or it would just for a second and die. Basically the engine wasn't getting any air.

[subsonic]

I am going to drop the car off today at a dealer near where I work.  They are going to run the obd to see if the history will show anything.  The service guy said the history may have recorded some info even if I did not get a check engine light.    I will mention the anti-shudder valve.  Getting the 10k oil change etc done.  Will let you know what they say.

[subsonic]

So I call ahead, tell the service adviser the whole deal, ask if I can e-mail him the problem description.  No.  Tells me to print it out and bring it in so I do.  I get to the dealer, go in the service dept, ask for the guy, hand hime the paperwork and ask where he wants the car.  I tell him I need to leave asap so I am not late for work.    Guy takes close to 15 min asking me my name etc.  I tell him it is all on the printout I have for him.  H e just keeps asking.  I tell him I wont be able to get the car untill 1/2 hour after closing time.  I am informed that they will not be responsible for ANYTHING that happens to the car one min after they close.  Nice- getting a good feeling about this.  Close of buisness I get the call.  "There is nothing wrong with your car, it's fine.  There were no codes."  So I ask the guy if the physical inspection showed anything.  Long pause......."what do you mean?"  
The engine, was there anything that showed up when you looked over the engine.

"There was no need to look at the engine, there were no codes"
So I ask him to explain why the car did not start and why the engine died 3 times.
He says he does not know it could have been a bunch of things, so I ask him to tell me what those things could have been.
"It could have been cold out." :roll:
"You might not have started it correctly." :?

"Wait, wait.  I might not have started it correctly?  Like how?"

"You might have given it to much fuel."
"You might have cranked it too long and over-heated something."
"The fuel filter may have had water in it."

So did it?

"Did what?"

Did the fuel filter have water in it? Did you check it?

"No, there was no code. That means its working fine."

So if there is no code, there is no problem, is that what you are telling me?

"Yes. Thats correct."  "You need to leave it over night to see if we can duplicate the problem."

I tell the guy I cant do that.

"Then there is nothing we can do."

This is the same guy who tried to tell me that my 10k service was going to cost me 170 bucks.  He did not even know that the maintenance is included up to 36000.  
Manchester VW in Manchester NH.  Some top notch guys.

[shegel]

i would be leary to go to a dealer like that again.

[rallydiesel]

So would I. My service guy has been very good. I live out of town and he always tries to get my car done the same day. I still try to keep my car out of the dealership, but it's still under warranty so I want to get the bugs out before the warranty runs out.

[subsonic]

To top it off, I looked under the car this morning to see if they reattached the lower engine cover with all the fasteners--need to pull it to get at the oil filter etc.   What do I see? Two big fresh oil stains on my driveway.  One about 5 inches accross, one about 2"  (I took pictures of them right before the snow started so I would have proof.).   I look up at the cover and see a big fat drop of oil hanging off it. :evil:     I expect a little spillage from a oil change,  but this appeared after a 60 mile drive home, 90 min of driving.  I am thinking if there was some spillage it would be long gone before I pull into my driveway after 60 miles.  I tried contacting VW customer service to get the name of the north east cust service co-ordinator.  They were closed for the storm.  No way am I into a new 2009 Jetta tdi for over 23 grand to have it run like *** on occasion and leak oil like my old 85 golf.  Someone is going to get a earful.  I will post all of this here, the vortex and on tdiclub.  You can be sure I will be telling the rep that as well.

ps.  The morons stuck a valvoline oil change sticker on my car with the next oil change mileage as 15k.  5k after this one.  The service interval is 10k.  At least they used the 507 oil.  I ran the part number off the dealer receipt to make sure.
Oil---GVW052195M2
Filter element- 071115562C   (have not checked this.)

[subsonic]

jtanguay,
I read the link you posted about the asv.  Many of the people who reported problems with it had starts just like mine.  I wonder if the vag-com program can detect engine malfunctions that the dealer obd system does not?

I am trying to get registered on tdiclub but am having problems logging on.  I sent a help request to there admin link.

[jtanguay]

jtanguay,
I read the link you posted about the asv.  Many of the people who reported problems with it had starts just like mine.  I wonder if the vag-com program can detect engine malfunctions that the dealer obd system does not?

I am trying to get registered on tdiclub but am having problems logging on.  I sent a help request to there admin link.

hmmmm maybe they changed the login to get rid of porn spammers...

i wonder why your car needs 507 oil.. of course it is superior, but you don't need to worry about the cam rounding off because there is no PD injectors...

maybe your asv is just a bit sticky??? can you access the hose to check?  hopefully that won't void any warranty..  whatever the warranty covers...  :roll: sounds like top notch people at that stealer...

[subsonic]

Here is the letter I sent to VW customer care:

To:  VW Customer Care
From: Jim xxxxxx
RE: Case # 8041-11xx
Vehicle problems / Poor dealer service.   2009 Jetta TDI Loyal edition.

                                         VIN # 3VWCL71K49M003xxx

I am the owner of a 2009 Jetta TDI.  I think it is a wonderful car.  I purchased the car in August, 2008 and have put over 10,000 miles on it already.  I bought the car from Beranger VW Rochester, N.H.
Just to give you a bit of my personal history with VW diesels.  I have been driving them since 1985.  I put over 500,000 miles on my first one, 300,000 on my second one.  I have another in my driveway that is awaiting a freshly rebuilt engine I have in my garage.  I have a fair amount of knowledge on the workings and maintenance of VW diesels.  I can rebuild them, I can rebuild and set breaking pressures on injectors, I have the correct tools to set and adjust injection timing.  I am very familiar with the IDI setup.  I will be honest and say I do not know as much about the newer Common Rail units.  I am not clueless about it, just not as up to speed as I am on previous units.  I wanted to lay that groundwork so you know where I am coming from with my concerns.
 Below is an account of the problem I was having with my car.  I had it posted on one of the many VW diesel web sites that I frequent.  

Have just under 10k on the car now.
I had a no start situation this morning that is pissing me off. My wife came in and tells me "The new car wont start." (She cranked it over 2 times).
 WTH? I go out, thinking it may have been operator error, and try to start it. Turns over great----no fire. WTF. Turn off the key, turn on the key wait a second and crank again, for about 5 seconds. The engine catches and runs like complete ass. Sounds like it is only on two cylinders. Dies after about 4 seconds of stumbling.
Crank it again, Thousand 1, thousand 2, etc.  Catches after 5.  Same deal. Stumbles about 4-5 seconds, Dies.
Crank it one last time and rev it up to about 3 grand once it catches.
 Engine comes back to normal idle. Runs fine.  Something is not right.
Drove it 60 miles or so in to work, ran fine.
I noticed the week before when I started it I had a difficult time holding the idle steady while I was revving up the engine to try and get some heat going to melt through the inch of ice on the windshield. I tried to hold it just under 2k but it would wander up or down about 300rpm no matter how I worked the pedal.

I am going to drop the car off today at a dealer near where I work. They are going to run the OBD to see if the history will show anything. The service guy said the history may have recorded some info even if I did not get a check engine light. I will mention the anti-shudder valve. Getting the 10k oil change etc done. Will let you know what they say.  

  I live in North Berwick Maine.  I work in Manchester NH.  I chose to use Manchester VW because I pass them on the way to work.
 I have had nothing but problems with them.  
The service adviser I spoke to before I dropped it off was not the same one I spoke to earlier.
I was now dealing with Reggie Miller / 0332.  I spoke with Mr. Miller on the phone an hour or two before I dropped the car off.
Mr. Miller acted as if he was doing me a favor by allowing me to bring my car in to have it looked at.
The first thing he did was a walk around of the car to note any damage.  That’s fine.  I have a scratch on a fender and a cracked windshield.  I understand they don’t want to be held liable for those things.  Then he tells me that because there is road salt and a small amount of slush on the car that he cannot ascertain if there is any other hidden damage.  If I pick up my car and there is any sort of damage on the dirty parts of the car, then they are not responsible for it.  He asks me to sign off on a paper saying as much.  
I then tell Mr. Miller that I will have to pick up the car about 20 min after closing time.  Mr. Miller than turns in his chair and points to a sign on the wall that states that Manchester VW will not be responsible for anything that happens to a car on there lot after they close.  Nothing. Not one thing.  If I pick it up and it has a dented fender it is not their problem.  At this point, I’m not really getting the warm and fuzzy, we’ll take care of you, feeling a new car owner expects.
I give Miller a print out of the above write up.  I had also asked if he could do the 10K service while he had it.
At this point, your service advisor tells me he can get the 10k service done, and it should only run me about $150-$170.  
This is your Service Advisor.  Has this guy had any new model training?  This is a 2009.  Maintenance is included up to 36,000 miles.  
I inform him about the included maintenance up to 36,000 miles and tell him it is covered and I do not expect to pay anything.  Mr. Miller tells me that he thinks I am incorrect, but he will check on it for me.  Nice of him to humor me.
I ask Miller to set the tire pressure 5 psi or so above standard, when the tires get rotated.  He does not want to do this.  I explain that if they adjust tire pressure after my car is sitting in a 70 degree bay, and pump 80 degree compressed air into the tires, I will have a problem when the car is then moved out into a 20 degree environment.  Instead of reading 35psi I will be 5psi or so low due to the 60 degree temperature drop.  Mr. Miller argues with me.  I finally tell him to not adjust tire pressure at all.  Leave them as they are.  He agrees.
I leave my contact info and tell Miller I have the spare key.  I ask him to contact me when he has any information.

At close of business I get the call.
 "There is nothing wrong with your car, it's fine. There were no codes."
So I ask the guy if the visual or physical inspection showed anything.
Long pause......."What do you mean?"
The engine, was there anything that showed up when you looked over the engine.

"There was no need to look at the engine compartment, there were no codes"
(I would classify this as basic trouble shooting 101.  So how was a 10k mile service done without the engine compartment being looked at?).

So I ask him to explain why the car did not start and why the engine died 3 times.
He says he does not know it could have been a bunch of things, so I ask him to tell me what those things could have been.
"It could have been cold out."
(It was 40+degrees when I attempted to start it.  This is a very uninformed answer.  This car should have no problem starting at this or much lower temperatures.  If a 2009 Jetta does not start when the temperature drops into the low 40’s, something is wrong.)

"You might not have started it correctly."
"Wait, wait. I might not have started it correctly? Like how?"

"You might have given it too much fuel."
(Does Mr. Miller know how a diesel injection system works? I do.  Too much fuel? Fuel delivery is controlled by IP timing, nozzle breaking pressure, amount of turbo boost, the ECU etc.  Perhaps he thinks I had a stuck float on my carburetor? ).
"You might have cranked it too long and over-heated something."
(Another hair brained answer.  See the above write-up.  “ 5-seconds” of cranking.  I am pretty sure that is within the acceptable limits).

"The fuel filter may have had water in it."

So did it?

"Did what?"

Did the fuel filter have water in it? Did you check it?

"No, there was no code. That means it’s working fine."
(So why tell me that this may have been a reason?)

So if there is no code, there is no problem, is that what you are telling me?

"Yes. That’s correct.  You need to leave it over night to see if we can duplicate the problem."
I inform Mr. Miller that I have driven the car multiple times since the problem and it is currently running well.  I inform Mr. Miller that I live over 60 miles away and that leaving the car overnight in Manchester is not feasible.

"Then there is nothing we can do."

I pick the car up after work.  
The service write-up states:
 “Hard to start cold.  See attached note from cust.”
 That’s good that the tech saw my notes.  But none of the particulars are entered into my vehicle history.  I see nothing about the idle not holding steady, nothing about the no-start.  Nothing about the 4-5 seconds of running and stalling multiple times.  That all needs to be entered and recorded.  If this happens again, I will need to prove a past history of the same or similar problem.  If this happens again, the next technician will need to be able to read the past history.  Something was definitely wrong.  I don’t know if the ECU had a temporary brain fart or what, but diesel engines do not start hard, run like crap and stall out unless something is wrong.
As an additional note, the service tech was kind enough to affix a Valvoline oil change sticker to my windshield stating that the next service was due at 15,000 miles.  I realize that this is a 2009 TDI, but if he was paying attention in the mandatory class you sent all your techs to about this car, he would know that this engine has a oil change service of 10k, not 5k.


To top it off, I looked under the car the next morning (12/19/2008) to see if they reattached the lower engine cover with all the fasteners--need to pull it to get at the oil filter etc. What do I see? Two big fresh oil stains on my driveway. One about 5 inches across, one about 2" (I took pictures of them right before the snow started so I would have proof.). That’s a size 13 shoe as reference.

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view&current=DSCN0760.jpg

I look up at the cover and see a big fat drop of oil hanging off it.  

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view&current=DSCN0761.jpg

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view&current=DSCN0762.jpg

I expect a little spillage from an oil change.  I also expect the mechanic to have enough pride in his work to wipe it up and leave the engine clean. This appeared after a 60-mile drive home, 90 min of driving. I am thinking if there were some spillage it would be long gone before I pull into my driveway after 60 miles. It is now 12/27/2008.  I have driven the car through snow and rain.  The car has been through the car wash and had the under carriage washed as well.  I continue to have an oil leak staining my driveway and leaking out of my new $23,000 car.  
Please see the attached pictures.

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view&current=DSCN0789.jpg

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view&current=DSCN0787.jpg

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff120/subsonic44/?action=view&current=DSCN0790.jpg



To say that I lack confidence in the abilities of the Manchester VW staff would be a drastic understatement.  They have displayed a distinct lack of product knowledge.  They attempted to charge me for work that should have been free.  They were unable to locate the root cause of the original problem and instead attempted to place blame for the situation on me, the customer.  The answers given by your Service Advisor were ludicrous and insulting.  The simple act of changing the oil has been screwed up and my new car undercarriage / driveway is now being covered in used diesel engine oil.
I do not want to bring my car back to Manchester VW for any additional service, nor will I recommend that anyone else from the various web sites that I post to go there either.
I intend to bring at back to the dealer of purchase, Beranger VW.  

Regardless, I will need to bring the car back in again to have this problem corrected.  So far, in the 4 short months that I have owned the car, the trunk light assembly has been defective and replaced, the sunroof control switch has been defective and the part ordered for replacement, there was a problem with the idle, the starting and stalling problem, and now an oil leak.  I always had to make adjustments to my older VW diesels, I expected it.    To have these sorts of things happen to my new 2009 TDI is very disappointing.
I work 12-hour days 5 days a week.  When I am not working I am looking after my 3 small children.   To be continually dealing with these issues with my “brand new car” is stealing what small time I have to give to them.  A start in the right direction towards resolving these issues needs to include making a loaner vehicle available for me while these other problems are worked out.  Additionally, I would like to make certain that this is the end of these kinds of problems with this car.
I look forward to hearing from you on this matter.


Jim xxxxx
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx


I will fill you in on the response I got tomorrow.

[foxracer1]

Thats a good letter. I hope they deal with it. You didn't get really angry you just told them how it was and you have pictures to back it up. Good work. Keep us posted.