Engine Specific Info and Questions > mTDI Mechanical TDI Conversions
mTDI / TDI-M Injection Pump FAQ
theman53:
--- Quote from: libbydiesel on March 27, 2015, 07:19:28 pm ---I looked through this FAQ and did not see a specific list of the custom bits necessary to use the Land Rover 300TDI injection pump on an AHU and an ALH. I figured I'd add that list.
AHU:
The snout hole in the pump mounting bracket needs to be enlarged for the larger snout of the LR pump.
Because the LR pump does not have slotted mounting holes, you need to make some accommodation for timing adjustment. My preference is to use the ALH sprocket and hub. If you use the ALH sprocket and hub then you either need to use slightly sprocket to hub bolts that are slightly shorter than the stock ALH bolts or trim the pump case slightly where the timing pin goes. If you use the stock ALH sprocket to hub bolts (which are single-use) without clearancing the pump case they will hit. Another option is to file the pump mounting holes so they are slots. If you make the pump mounting holes into slots, you can use the AHU sprocket.
The plate that catches the 4th pump mounting bolt by the injection lines needs to be changed. I've used the 1.6 plate which requires 2 additional holes to be drilled for mounting to the distributor head.
The LR delivery valves are longer. The two options are to either swap the delivery valves for short ones or bend the metal lines to fit the LR delivery valves. I've used TDI delivery valves and 1.6 delivery valves and either work fine and will fit the stock ALH injection lines. I have also bent the metal fuel lines and have not had any issues after thousands of miles of use. The downside to swapping valves is the fact that you need to source the valves and/or take them from a working pump destroying its value. The downside to bending the lines is that if you ever have to replace a line you will need to bend that one as well.
ALH:
The LR pump snout is the correct diameter to fit the ALH pump mounting bracket. The ALH pump mounting holes are threaded to accept the m8 bolts that fit through from the sprocket side. The LR holes are not threaded and are too large to tap to the m8 size. I tapped them to m10 and got the correct length m10 bolts which just barely fit through the bracket.
The other necessary changes are the same as written in the AHU section. The delivery valve length issue and the plate for the 4th pump mounting bolt need to be addressed.
--- End quote ---
I like that info as I am getting closer to getting the mtdi ready. You don't have a pic of the 4th hole that needs drilled do you?
vanbcguy:
On mine, I reused some bits I had around the house for the accelerator cable and the 4th mounting bolt. I used part of the TDI mounting plate and had it welded on to the Rover mounting plate.
Since my 300TDI pump has set screws for the 'whatever the hell it is' accelerator-connected-unknown-function lever on the side of the pump, I couldn't use the 1.6 accelerator cable bracket. Instead I nipped a triangle out of the 1.6 bracket, bent it on a 90 degree angle and then drilled some holes through the Rover bracket and the 1.6 bracket and attached the 1.6 bracket with machine bolts. I also had a chunk of metal welded in place to strengthen the cut 1.6 bracket. This pic shows the 1.6 bracket before welding:
Finally to connect the accelerator lever to the pump, I made up a metal connector that replaces the VW plastic one, since I still had the 'whatever the hell it is' lever on my pump at the time which interfered with the VW style accelerator cable connection. This is just a piece of galvanized steel (actually a chunk of an old electrical box) that I cut a keyhole in on the bottom and put the swaged VW cable end in to after breaking off the plastic part.
vanbcguy:
Probably also worth mentioning... I removed the internal part of the 'whatever the hell it is' lever when I did my gov mod the other day. It didn't really seem to have a function and it's damn hard to get the pump back together with it in place. Doesn't seem to have caused any issues and I REALLY can't figure out what it's supposed to do after seeing how it went together internally.
It essentially made a veeeeerrrryyyy tiny difference in the ultimate maximum 'full fuel' position of the fuel control lever, but the way the linkage was set up it should never actually come in to play, at least on my pump, since the only time the lever would be in its 'doing something' position would be when the accelerator lever was at idle, which of course means the governor is already pushing the fuel control lever back meaning there's not really any way the fuel control lever could be touching its arm. Very weird.
Oh and also worth mentioning, I had a chat with Göran Lindgren (Dieselmeken) about the Rover 300TDI pump that I'm using (0 460 414 099). He confirmed that it should have no trouble supporting 200+ HP with just the usual minor adjustments (fuel screw / LDA / governor). Also confirmed the advance system on that pump is adequate for higher RPM use.
libbydiesel:
That extra lever reduces the max fuel slightly, but only at idle... The only plausible explanation I've heard for it, I believe you came up with. It may reduce the initial puff of startup smoke. I do not believe that it will affect the normal operation at all.
As far as the plate that catches the 4th pump mounting bolt, here's a pic of the rover plate.
The 4th pump mounting bolt is approximately in the location of the green circle. I have a rover plate here and in looking at it more I believe that one could cut it at the blue line, flip it over and place it so the hole that the red arrow is pointing at would be in the correct location. Cut, flipped and rotated it would be oriented like this:
libbydiesel:
--- Quote from: vanbcguy on March 27, 2015, 11:35:39 pm ---Oh and also worth mentioning, I had a chat with Göran Lindgren (Dieselmeken) about the Rover 300TDI pump that I'm using (0 460 414 099). He confirmed that it should have no trouble supporting 200+ HP with just the usual minor adjustments (fuel screw / LDA / governor). Also confirmed the advance system on that pump is adequate for higher RPM use.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the info. On a similar note I thought that I would mention the performance mods for the LR pump for high power applications. There are only three potential changes I would make to the internals of the pump for the extreme build.
Governor mod: The LR pump is governed to 4300 or so rpms in stock form. That means that it starts cutting fuel quite a few rpms before 4300. While I've been happy without doing the governor mod (I rarely push my TDIs to 4,000 or above) I can see how many high-performance builds would desire the easy power of higher rpms.
Camplate swap: The LR camplate is fairly mild. The total max fuel per stroke is determined by (plunger radius^2) x pi x camplate lift. Increasing the camplate lift is one of the ways to increase potential max fuel. The LR pump has higher fueling potential than the 10mm eTDI pumps even with the mildish camplate, but a swap to a 4BTA camplate would give a significant increase to the max fuel potential. Bear in mind that any modification that increasing the max fuel potential will shorten the injection event for smaller quantities of fuel making the engine more clattery and so, replacing the camplate with a higher lift one may not be desirable unless that added max fuel potential will be utilized.
Plunger swap: For the extreme build, a swap to a 12mm plunger/head assembly may be desired. 10mm plunger has an area of 78.5mm^2. 11mm plunger has an area of 95mm^2. 12mm plunger has an area of 113mm^2. As you can see there is a greater difference in fueling from a swap from 11mm to 12mm than there is from a swap from 10mm to 11mm. Bear in mind that in the same way that a higher lift camplate will shorten the injection event, so will a plunger diameter increase. You should also NOT increase the plunger size to 12mm without increasing the injector nozzles to be larger than stock.
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